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Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
 
13:30
Y Llywydd / The LlywyddBywgraffiadBiography
Galw’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i drefn.
I call the National Assembly to order.
 
1. Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
1. Questions to the First Minister
Mae [R] yn dynodi bod yr Aelod wedi datgan buddiant. Mae [W] yn dynodi bod y cwestiwn wedi’i gyflwyno yn Gymraeg.
[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.
 
13:30
Y Llywydd / The LlywyddBywgraffiadBiography
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog, a’r cwestiwn cyntaf, Jenny Rathbone.
The first item this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Jenny Rathbone.
 
Llygredd Aer
Air Pollution
 
13:30
Jenny RathboneBywgraffiadBiography
1. Beth yw strategaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â llygredd aer yng Nghymru? OAQ(5)0592(FM)
1. What is the Welsh Government's strategy for tackling air pollution in Wales? OAQ(5)0592(FM)
 
13:30
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
We tackle air pollution in a number of ways. These include local air quality management, industry regulation, the planning regime and the promotion of active travel.
Rydym ni’n mynd i'r afael â llygredd aer mewn nifer o ffyrdd. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys rheoli ansawdd aer lleol, rheoleiddio diwydiant, y drefn gynllunio a hybu teithio llesol.
 
13:30
Jenny RathboneBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you, First Minister. We know that air pollution kills more people than are killed in road traffic accidents, and even the UK Government admits it’s the largest environmental threat to public health in the UK. A cross-party group in the House of Commons called it a public health emergency. These air quality management areas include an area of Newport Road, where I’ve got no less than three primary schools running along it, and they are breathing in toxic levels of air at the moment. The latest plan by the Tories that was published earlier this month is no more than an options paper. There is nothing in it that even approaches a strategy. One of the options is to have clean air zones where polluting vehicles have to pay to enter them. Obviously, this would be the thing that would make the biggest impact on cutting pollution, but the Tories have passed the buck to local authorities, with shackles on. They’re not allowed to do anything along these lines until, for example, all buses have been converted from diesel to cleaner energy. I just wondered—
Diolch yn fawr, Prif Weinidog. Rydym ni’n gwybod bod llygredd aer yn lladd mwy o bobl na’r nifer sy’n cael eu lladd mewn damweiniau ar y ffyrdd, ac mae hyd yn oed Llywodraeth y DU yn cyfaddef mai dyma’r bygythiad amgylcheddol mwyaf i iechyd y cyhoedd yn y DU. Fe’i galwyd yn argyfwng iechyd y cyhoedd gan grŵp trawsbleidiol yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin. Mae'r ardaloedd rheoli ansawdd aer hyn yn cynnwys ardal o Heol Casnewydd, lle mae gennyf ddim llai na thair ysgol gynradd ar ei hyd, ac maen nhw’n mewnanadlu lefelau gwenwynig o aer ar hyn o bryd. Nid yw’r cynllun diweddaraf gan y Torïaid a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach y mis hwn yn ddim mwy na phapur dewisiadau. Nid oes unrhyw beth ynddo hyd sydd hyd yn oed yn debyg i strategaeth. Un o'r dewisiadau yw cael parthau aer glân y mae'n rhaid i gerbydau sy'n llygru dalu i fynd i mewn iddynt. Yn amlwg, dyma’r peth a fyddai'n cael yr effaith fwyaf ar leihau llygredd, ond mae'r Torïaid wedi trosglwyddo’r baich i awdurdodau lleol, gan gynnwys rhwystrau. Nid ydyn nhw’n cael gwneud unrhyw beth o’r fath tan, er enghraifft, y bydd yr holl fysiau wedi cael eu trosi o ddiesel i ynni glanach. Roeddwn i’n meddwl tybed—
 
13:31
Y Llywydd / The LlywyddBywgraffiadBiography
You do need to come to a question.
Mae angen i chi ddod i gwestiwn.
 
13:31
Jenny RathboneBywgraffiadBiography
[Continues.]—what the Welsh Government interprets from this plan and what it sees as its responsibility in ensuring that communities like mine are relieved of this appalling thing.
[Yn parhau.]—beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddehongli o'r cynllun hwn a beth mae'n ei weld fel ei chyfrifoldeb i sicrhau bod cymunedau fel fy un i yn cael eu rhyddhau o’r peth ofnadwy hwn.
 
13:31
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, it’s important to note that some of the levers for improving air quality, such as fiscal measures relating to diesel vehicles, are non-devolved. The level of commitment to take action at a UK Government level is currently unclear, but, as evidence of our commitment to do all that we can to improve air quality at a Welsh national level, we’ve said in the UK plan that, within 12 months, we will consult on the detail of a proposal for a clean air zone framework for Wales.
Wel, mae'n bwysig nodi nad yw rhai o'r dulliau ar gyfer gwella ansawdd aer, fel mesurau cyllidol sy'n ymwneud â cherbydau diesel, wedi'u datganoli. Mae lefel yr ymrwymiad i gymryd camau ar lefel Llywodraeth y DU yn aneglur ar hyn o bryd, ond, fel tystiolaeth o'n hymrwymiad i wneud popeth y gallwn i wella ansawdd aer ar lefel genedlaethol Cymru, rydym ni wedi dweud yng nghynllun y DU y byddwn, o fewn 12 mis, yn ymgynghori ar fanylion cynnig ar gyfer fframwaith parth aer glân ar gyfer Cymru.
 
13:32
Well, I commend that study, because, if you look at Germany, clean air zones have been hugely successful in their cities, reducing soot emissions from exhausts by more than 50 per cent in Berlin, for instance. But these policies require behaviour change, encouraging cycling and the like, access to city areas and free parking for cleaner vehicles, and better use of existing infrastructure, i.e. redesignating some of our routes for pedestrians and for cyclists. And, really, I do think we should have the ambition to declare Cardiff a clean air zone, so I encourage you to do that as soon as possible.
Wel, rwy’n cymeradwyo'r astudiaeth honno, oherwydd, os edrychwch chi ar yr Almaen, mae parthau aer glân wedi bod yn hynod lwyddiannus yn eu dinasoedd nhw, gan leihau allyriadau huddygl o bibellau gwacau o fwy na 50 y cant yn Berlin, er enghraifft. Ond mae’r polisïau hyn yn gofyn am newid ymddygiad, annog beicio ac ati, mynediad at ardaloedd o ddinasoedd a pharcio am ddim i gerbydau glanach, a gwell defnydd o seilwaith presennol, h.y. ail-ddynodi rhai o'n llwybrau ar gyfer cerddwyr a beicwyr. Ac, yn wir, rwy’n meddwl y dylem ni fod â’r uchelgais i ddatgan bod Caerdydd yn barth aer glân, felly rwy'n eich annog i wneud hynny cyn gynted â phosibl.
 
13:32
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, of course, we are encouraging local authorities to create more cycle routes. The Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 is evidence of that, and, of course, the proposal for a metro, which will lead to better and quicker journeys on public transport, taking people out of their cars, whilst the metro itself will of course reduce emissions from the current all-diesel rolling stock. I can say that, where future evidence demonstrates clearly that clean air zones would bring about compliance before other measures, and in the shortest possible time, we will set out how to ensure the effective implementation of such zones.
Wel, wrth gwrs, rydym ni’n annog awdurdodau lleol i greu mwy o lwybrau beicio. Mae Deddf Teithio Llesol (Cymru) 2013 yn dystiolaeth o hynny, ac, wrth gwrs, y cynnig ar gyfer metro, a fydd yn arwain at deithiau gwell a chyflymach ar gludiant cyhoeddus, gan gymryd pobl allan o'u ceir, tra bydd y metro ei hun wrth gwrs yn lleihau allyriadau o'r cerbydau diesel i gyd presennol. Gallaf ddweud, pan fydd tystiolaeth yn y dyfodol yn dangos yn eglur y byddai parthau aer glân yn arwain at gydymffurfiad cyn mesurau eraill, ac yn yr amser byrraf posibl, y byddwn yn nodi sut i sicrhau cyflwyniad parthau o'r fath yn effeithiol.
 
13:33
A wnewch chi, felly, gadarnhau y bydd yn fwriad gan Lywodraeth Cymru bod y parthau awyr glân yma yn gostwng llygredd awyr, yn arbennig ymysg y gronynnau mân iawn, y PM10s, sydd yn mynd yn ddwfn i’r ysgyfaint, ac sy’n arbennig o beryglus i blant a phobl ifanc sydd yn cerdded, er enghraifft, neu’n seiclo i’r ysgol? Ac a fydd, felly, dargedau penodol y tu fewn i’ch cynlluniau chi ar gyfer parthau awyr glân?
Will you therefore confirm that it’s the Welsh Government’s intention that these air quality management zones do reduce air pollution, particularly in terms of the very small particulates—the PM10s—that can go deep into the lungs and are particularly dangerous to children and young people who walk or cycle to school? And, therefore, will there be specific targets within your plans for these air quality zones?
 
13:34
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Wel, mae hwn yn rhywbeth sy’n cael ei ystyried ar hyn o bryd, ynglŷn â pharthau awyr glân, a bydd hynny’n rhan o’r ymgynghoriad a fydd yn cymryd lle, fel sydd wedi cael ei nodi yn y cynllun Prydeinig.
Well, this is something that is being considered at the moment as regards air quality management zones, and it’s part of the consultation that will take place, as has been set out in the British scheme.
 
Chwaraeon Proffesiynol
Professional Sport
 
13:34
2. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am bwysigrwydd chwaraeon proffesiynol i Gymru? OAQ(5)0597(FM)
2. Will the First Minister make a statement on the importance of professional sport to Wales? OAQ(5)0597(FM)
 
13:34
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Professional sport brings a number of important benefits to Wales, particularly to Swansea. Of course, I know the Member will, no doubt, ask about Swansea City AFC and their successful campaign this year to stay in the Premier League. But, of course, we know that professional sport is a catalyst not just to increase participation rates in sport, but it can also give people in cities and nations a feel-good factor, and, of course, the Euros of last year were an example of how that can happen in Wales.
Mae chwaraeon proffesiynol yn dod â nifer o fanteision pwysig i Gymru, yn enwedig i Abertawe. Wrth gwrs, gwn ei bod yn sicr y bydd yr Aelod yn gofyn am Glwb Pêl-droed Dinas Abertawe a’u hymgyrch lwyddiannus eleni i aros yn Uwch Gynghrair Lloegr. Ond, wrth gwrs, rydym ni’n gwybod bod chwaraeon proffesiynol yn gatalydd nid yn unig i gynyddu cyfraddau cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon, ond gall hefyd godi ysbryd pobl mewn dinasoedd a gwledydd, ac, wrth gwrs, roedd pencampwriaeth Ewrop y llynedd yn enghraifft o sut y gall hynny ddigwydd yng Nghymru.
 
13:34
Can I thank the First Minister for that response? Can I highlight the importance of professional sport in promoting the identity of an area and generating wealth within the economy? I want to stress the importance of Swansea City staying in the premiership, for the economy of Swansea bay city region, for tourism in the Swansea bay city region, and for name recognition of Swansea. Will the First Minister join me in congratulating Swansea on staying in the premiership, which benefits the whole of Wales?
A gaf i ddiolch i'r Prif Weinidog am yr ymateb yna? A gaf i dynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd chwaraeon proffesiynol o ran hyrwyddo hunaniaeth ardal a chreu cyfoeth yn yr economi? Hoffwn bwysleisio pwysigrwydd Dinas Abertawe yn aros yn uwch gynghrair Lloegr, i economi dinas-ranbarth Bae Abertawe, i dwristiaeth yn ninas-ranbarth Bae Abertawe, ac i adnabod enw Abertawe. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ymuno â mi i longyfarch Abertawe ar aros yn yr uwch gynghrair, sydd o fudd i Gymru gyfan?
 
13:35
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Yes, I will. It’s hugely important that we have a team that not just gets into the Premier League, but stays there. Also important to note, of course, the successful campaign by Newport County to stay in League 2. We all saw the scenes when the final goal was scored, a minute before the end of normal time. I can see the Member for Newport East—I’m sure the Member for Newport West as well—beaming, when I mentioned that. But, it is true to say that professional sport is a hugely important economic catalyst. We know, for example, that Swansea’s presence in the Premier League has been hugely important in creating tourism for the area, in terms of improving hotel rate occupancy and, of course, in improving spend by visitors to the city, and beyond.
Gwnaf, mi wnaf. Mae'n hynod bwysig bod gennym ni dîm sydd nid yn unig yn cyrraedd Uwch Gynghrair Lloegr, ond yn aros yno. Mae hefyd yn bwysig nodi, wrth gwrs, yr ymgyrch lwyddiannus gan glwb Casnewydd i aros yng Nghynghrair 2 Lloegr. Gwelsom i gyd y golygfeydd pan sgoriwyd y gôl olaf, funud cyn diwedd y cyfnod arferol. Gallaf weld yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain Casnewydd—a’r Aelod dros Orllewin Casnewydd hefyd rwy’n siŵr—yn wên o glust i glust wrth i mi sôn am hynny. Ond, mae'n wir i ddweud bod chwaraeon proffesiynol yn gatalydd economaidd hynod bwysig. Rydym ni’n gwybod, er enghraifft, bod presenoldeb Abertawe yn Uwch Gynghrair Lloegr wedi bod yn hynod bwysig o ran creu twristiaeth yn yr ardal, o ran gwella cyfradd ymwelwyr â gwestai ac, wrth gwrs, o ran gwella gwariant gan ymwelwyr â'r ddinas, a thu hwnt.
 
13:36
Janet Finch-SaundersBywgraffiadBiography
First Minister, grass-roots training in football is so often crucial to future development of young players to a more professional level. Currently, however, three of our four Welsh police forces are now investigating allegations of historic child sexual abuse at this level, with the Football Association chairman, Greg Clarke, calling this the biggest crisis in football. First Minister, in north Wales, there are several accusations of an historical nature that it is felt must be investigated. Steve Walters of the Offside Trust, and, indeed, one of my own constituents, PC Mike Smith, both of whom have suffered, are leading calls for the Football Association of Wales to launch a full inquiry into this matter. Will you work with your Cabinet Secretary to support those calls and, in doing so, provide an environment where children seeking to fulfil their ambitions in the sport, to a more professional level, are able to do so safely?
Prif Weinidog, mae hyfforddiant ar lawr gwlad mewn pêl-droed, mor aml yn hanfodol i ddatblygu chwaraewyr ifanc i lefel fwy proffesiynol yn y dyfodol. Ar hyn o bryd, fodd bynnag, mae tri o'n pedwar heddlu yng Nghymru yn ymchwilio i honiadau o gam-drin plant yn rhywiol hanesyddol ar y lefel hon, gyda chadeirydd Cymdeithas Bêl-droed Lloegr, Greg Clarke, yn cyfeirio at hwn fel yr argyfwng mwyaf ym myd pêl-droed. Prif Weinidog, yn y gogledd, ceir sawl cyhuddiad o natur hanesyddol y teimlir y mae’n rhaid ymchwilio iddynt. Mae Steve Walters o’r Offside Trust, ac, yn wir, un o fy etholwyr fy hun, y Cwnstabl Mike Smith, y mae’r ddau ohonynt wedi dioddef, yn arwain galwadau i Gymdeithas Bêl-droed Cymru lansio ymchwiliad llawn i'r mater hwn. A wnewch chi weithio gyda'ch Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i gefnogi'r galwadau hynny a, thrwy wneud hynny, darparu amgylchedd lle gall plant sy'n ceisio cyflawni eu huchelgeisiau yn y gamp, i lefel fwy proffesiynol, wneud hynny'n ddiogel?
 
13:36
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
We know that a safe environment is crucial for children and young people if they want to enjoy sport. We know that standards at one time were far laxer than they are now. These are matters primarily for the FAW and for the police. But it is hugely important that as much assurance as possible can be given, that any allegations in the past or, indeed, the present, are investigated fully, so as we can ensure that our children and young people continue to have a safer environment now and in the future.
Rydym ni’n gwybod bod amgylchedd diogel yn hanfodol i blant a phobl ifanc os ydynt am fwynhau chwaraeon. Rydym ni’n gwybod bod safonau ar un adeg yn llawer mwy llac nag y maen nhw erbyn hyn. Materion i Gymdeithas Bêl-droed Cymru ac i'r heddlu yw’r rhain yn bennaf. Ond mae'n hynod bwysig y gellir rhoi cymaint o sicrwydd â phosibl, y bydd unrhyw honiadau yn y gorffennol neu, yn wir, y presennol, yn cael eu hymchwilio’n llawn, fel y gallwn sicrhau bod ein plant a'n pobl ifanc yn parhau i gael amgylchedd mwy diogel nawr ac yn y dyfodol.
 
13:37
Rhun ap IorwerthBywgraffiadBiography
Ro’n i’n falch iawn bod y Cynulliad yma’n unfrydol yr wythnos diwethaf wedi cefnogi gwelliant Plaid Cymru i Fil Iechyd y Cyhoedd (Cymru), a fydd yn golygu y bydd cael strategaeth gan y Llywodraeth i daclo gordewdra rŵan ar wyneb y Bil hwnnw. Ac rwy’n ddiolchgar i Aelodau pob plaid a’r Llywodraeth am gefnogi hynny. A ydy’r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno bod angen i’n clybiau a’n sefydliadau chwaraeon proffesiynol ni, yn ogystal â chwaraeon llawr gwlad, allu bwydo mewn rŵan i greu y strategaeth yna, er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym ni strategaeth a all yn wirioneddol fynd i’r afael â’r broblem fwyaf, o bosib, sy’n ein hwynebu ni o ran iechyd y cyhoedd?
I was delighted that the Assembly unanimously last week supported a Plaid Cymru amendment to the Public Health (Wales) Bill, which will mean that there will be a Government strategy to tackle obesity on the face of that Bill. And I’m grateful to Members of all parties and to the Government for supporting that. Does the First Minister agree that our clubs and professional sporting organisations, as well as grass-roots sports, will need to have an input to the creation of that strategy, in order to ensure that we have a strategy that can truly tackle the greatest problem, perhaps, facing us in terms of public health?
 
13:37
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Mae hynny’n iawn, achos, wrth gwrs, er bod chwaraeon yn y gymuned yn hollbwysig, er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn actif yn y gymuned, hefyd wrth gwrs mae timau proffesiynol yn gallu rhoi enghraifft, yn enwedig i bobl ifanc. Maen nhw’n gweld eu harwyr, wrth gwrs, yn dod i siarad â nhw ac yn dweud pa mor bwysig yw hi i fyw yn iach. Ac, felly, mae yna rôl hollbwysig i glybiau proffesiynol ynglŷn â sicrhau ein bod ni’n dod i afael ar ordewdra.
Well, yes, that’s right, because, although sports in the community are vital to ensure that people are active within the community, professional teams can set an example, especially to young people. They see their heroes coming to talk to them and telling them how important healthy living is. So, there is a vital role for professional clubs as regards ensuring that we do address obesity.
 
13:38
Gareth BennettBywgraffiadBiography
Swansea City and Newport County FC are both important focuses in their communities. And community morale will rise in those places as a result of those teams’ success. The problem we have sometimes with professional football clubs is that they tend now to be foreign owned. Two of the three football league clubs—[Interruption.] Well, no, it’s not going to be an EU thing. Sometimes, they do become distant from their fan base, whereas, at the same time, they are also important assets in the community. So, I wondered is there any way in which the Welsh Government can help to preserve them in their role as assets in the community.
Mae Clwb Pêl-droed Abertawe a Chlwb Pêl-droed Casnewydd ill dau yn ganolbwynt pwysig yn eu cymunedau. A bydd ysbryd cymunedol yn cynyddu yn y lleoedd hynny o ganlyniad i lwyddiant y timau hynny. Y broblem sydd gennym ni weithiau gyda chlybiau pêl-droed proffesiynol yw eu bod yn tueddu i fod mewn perchnogaeth dramor erbyn hyn. Mae dau o'r tri chlwb pêl-droed yng nghynghrair Lloegr—[Torri ar draws.] Wel, na, nid yw’n mynd i fod yn beth UE. Weithiau, maen nhw’n ymbellhau o’u sylfaen cefnogwyr, tra, ar yr un pryd, maen nhw hefyd yn asedau pwysig yn y gymuned. Felly, roeddwn i’n meddwl tybed a oes unrhyw ffordd y gall Llywodraeth Cymru helpu i'w cadw yn eu swyddogaeth fel asedau yn y gymuned.
 
13:39
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, Swansea City, of course, did that successfully. Cardiff City, which was mentioned, we want to see back in the Premier League next year. Before long, I’ll have to go round Wales and mention several clubs, and wish them all success. Wrexham—yes, and all other football clubs in Wales and, indeed, any sporting clubs, playing at any level, the best of luck for next year.
Wel, gwnaeth Abertawe hynny yn llwyddiannus, wrth gwrs. Caerdydd, a grybwyllwyd, rydym ni eisiau eu gweld yn ôl yn yr Uwch Gynghrair y flwyddyn nesaf. Cyn bo hir, bydd yn rhaid i mi fynd o gwmpas Cymru a chrybwyll sawl clwb, a dymuno llwyddiant iddyn nhw i gyd. Wrecsam—ie, a phob clwb pêl-droed arall yng Nghymru, ac, yn wir, unrhyw glybiau chwaraeon, sy’n chwarae ar unrhyw lefel, pob lwc ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf.
 
But he is right that it is hugely important that fans are given the opportunity to own their clubs. Bayern Munich, if I remember rightly, is fan owned. It’s a model that is used quite regularly in Germany. And I do worry that, where there is a lack of commitment by some owners—I don’t mention Cardiff City; the ownership there has been settled for some time—but, in some clubs, the question has to be asked, are the owners properly committed to the clubs in the way that fans could be? We saw in Swansea City the resurrection of that club because of the dedication and the money of supporters who were willing to put the money in, and, as a result, of course, that club is very strongly embedded in their community.
Ond mae'n iawn ei bod yn hynod bwysig bod cefnogwyr yn cael y cyfle i fod yn berchen ar eu clybiau. Mae Bayern Munich, os cofiaf yn iawn, yn eiddo i'r cefnogwyr. Mae'n fodel sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio’n eithaf rheolaidd yn yr Almaen. Ac rwy’n poeni, lle ceir diffyg ymrwymiad gan rai perchnogion—nid wyf yn sôn am Gaerdydd; mae’r berchnogaeth yno wedi bod yn sefydlog ers cryn amser—ond, mewn rhai clybiau, mae’n rhaid gofyn y cwestiwn, a yw’r perchnogion wedi ymrwymo’n ddigonol i'r clybiau yn y ffordd y gallai cefnogwyr wneud hynny? Gwelsom yn Ninas Abertawe atgyfodiad y clwb hwnnw oherwydd ymroddiad ac arian cefnogwyr a oedd yn fodlon cyfrannu’r arian hwnnw, ac, o ganlyniad, wrth gwrs, mae’r clwb hwnnw wedi’i wreiddio’n gryf iawn yn ei gymuned.
 
Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders
 
13:40
Y Llywydd / The LlywyddBywgraffiadBiography
Cwestiynau nawr gan arweinwyr y pleidiau. Arweinydd yr wrthblaid, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the opposition, Andrew R.T. Davies.
 
13:40
Andrew R.T. DaviesBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd yr Wrthblaid / The Leader of the Opposition
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Could I just welcome back the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs, who makes a welcome return to the Chamber? I wish you well, hopefully, in getting over the recent fall that you had, Cabinet Secretary.
Diolch i chi, Llywydd. A gaf i groesawu Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros faterion gwledig yr wyf yn falch o’i gweld yn ôl yn y Siambr? Dymunaf yn dda i chi, gobeithio, wrth wella o’r godwm a gawsoch yn ddiweddar, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.
 
First Minister, you said at the end of April that Jeremy Corbyn needed to prove himself if he were to become the Prime Minister at the end of this general election. The relationship between the First Minister of Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland and the Prime Minister is a very important relationship, and, indeed, inter-governmental relationship as well. Last week, at the campaign launch, you failed to mention his name. Last week, when the manifesto was leaked to the press, you put a press release out to say—[Interruption.] You put a press release out to say it was not your manifesto. Then, within a couple of hours’ time, it was redacted and changed. Do you believe that Jeremy Corbyn will be the Prime Minister on 9 June?
Prif Weinidog, dywedasoch ddiwedd mis Ebrill fod angen i Jeremy Corbyn brofi ei hun os oedd eisiau dod yn Brif Weinidog y DU ar ddiwedd yr etholiad cyffredinol hwn. Mae'r berthynas rhwng Prif Weinidog Cymru neu'r Alban neu Ogledd Iwerddon a Phrif Weinidog y DU yn berthynas bwysig iawn, ac, yn wir, yn berthynas rhynglywodraethol hefyd. Yr wythnos diwethaf, yn lansiad yr ymgyrch, ni wnaethoch grybwyll ei enw. Yr wythnos diwethaf, pan ryddhawyd y maniffesto i'r wasg, gwnaed datganiad i’r wasg gennych i ddweud—[Torri ar draws.] Gwnaed datganiad i’r wasg gennych i ddweud nad eich maniffesto chi oedd hwn. Yna, o fewn awr neu ddwy, cafodd ei olygu a’i newid. A ydych chi’n credu mai Jeremy Corbyn fydd Prif Weinidog y DU ar 9 Mehefin?
 
13:41
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
That is what I want to see. I’ve dealt with Theresa May; I see no evidence at all of strong leadership from her. She can’t answer a straight question. Leadership is about doing leaders’ debates. There are several of us who know that in this Chamber. Leadership is about going out and talking to people, rather than going to stage-managed events and stage-managed questions. That’s what true leadership is about, and there are several of us in this Chamber who have had experience of that and know that that is what leadership is about. I want to make sure that we have somebody who is willing to engage with the public, not somebody who shuts herself off from the public.
Dyna’r wyf i eisiau ei weld. Rwyf wedi ymdrin â Theresa May; ni welaf unrhyw dystiolaeth o gwbl o arweinyddiaeth gref ganddi hi. Ni all ateb cwestiwn plaen. Mae arweinyddiaeth yn cynnwys cymryd rhan mewn dadleuon arweinyddion. Mae nifer ohonom ni sy'n gwybod hynny yn y Siambr hon. Arweinyddiaeth yw mynd allan a siarad â phobl, yn hytrach na mynd i ddigwyddiadau wedi’u rheoli a chwestiynau wedi’u rheoli. Dyna beth yw arweinyddiaeth go iawn, a cheir sawl un ohonom ni yn y Siambr hon sydd wedi cael profiad o hynny ac sy’n gwybod mai dyna beth yw arweinyddiaeth. Rwyf i eisiau gwneud yn siŵr bod gennym ni rywun sy'n barod i ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd, nid rhywun sy'n cau ei hun i ffwrdd oddi wrth y cyhoedd.
 
13:41
Andrew R.T. DaviesBywgraffiadBiography
Giving a straight answer, First Minister, is most probably not your strongest card to stand on, to be fair, as anyone who’s asked you a question in this Chamber could attest to. But, in the manifesto that the Labour Party brought forward today, it talks of abolishing tuition fees, but yet your education Cabinet Secretary said last week that, actually, it’s not tuition fees that are the problem, but it is living costs. She also said, through a press spokesman, that Jeremy Corbyn would not be the Prime Minister. How on earth can you have any joined-up thinking in your Government when you have such a dislocate between the message that’s in the manifesto and the spending commitments that you’re signing up to day in, day out? Isn’t it the case that if people vote for Jeremy Corbyn on 8 June, you will have a coalition of chaos as opposed to the strong and stable leadership of Theresa May?
Mae’n debyg, Prif Weinidog, nad rhoi ateb plaen yw’r ddadl gryfaf o’ch safbwynt chi, i fod yn deg, fel y bydd unrhyw un sydd wedi gofyn cwestiwn i chi yn y Siambr hon yn dyst iddo. Ond, yn y maniffesto a gyhoeddwyd gan y Blaid Lafur heddiw, mae'n sôn am ddiddymu ffioedd dysgu, ac eto dywedodd eich Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros addysg yr wythnos diwethaf nad ffioedd dysgu yw’r broblem mewn gwirionedd, ond costau byw. Dywedodd hefyd, trwy lefarydd y wasg, nad Jeremy Corbyn fyddai Prif Weinidog y DU. Sut ar y ddaear allwch chi gael unrhyw syniadau cydgysylltiedig yn eich Llywodraeth pan fo gennych chi ddiffyg cysylltiad o'r fath rhwng y neges sydd yn y maniffesto a'r ymrwymiadau gwario yr ydych chi’n eu llofnodi bob un dydd? Onid yw'n wir, os bydd pobl yn pleidleisio dros Jeremy Corbyn ar 8 Mehefin, y bydd gennych chi glymblaid o anhrefn yn hytrach nag arweinyddiaeth gref a sefydlog Theresa May?
 
13:42
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, I wonder if the leader of the Welsh Conservatives believes Theresa May to be a strong leader, given the rumours we’ve heard about his deselection, and that of the rest of his group [Laughter.] When asked on the radio whether she was supportive of him and his position, she said Andrew R.T. Davies is the leader of the Welsh Conservatives. Well, stunningly true as a fact, but hardly a great vote of confidence in him. We are proud of the manifesto that we are standing on. It offers great hope for our people. One thing we do know is that the Diamond review has put students in Wales ahead of those in England, and what we do know, of course, is that if the Tories win the general election, students will be hammered even harder. They will be forced to pay even more. So, one thing we do know is that students will never be in a position where they are better off under the Conservatives.
Wel, rwy’n meddwl tybed a yw arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn credu bod Theresa May yn arweinydd cryf, o ystyried y sibrydion yr ydym ni wedi eu clywed am ei ddadethol, a dadethol gweddill ei grŵp [Chwerthin.] Pan ofynnwyd iddi ar y radio a oedd yn ei gefnogi ef a'i swydd, dywedodd mai Andrew R.T. Davies yw arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Wel, syfrdanol o wir fel ffaith, ond heb ddangos fawr o hyder ynddo. Rydym ni’n falch o'r maniffesto yr ydym ni’n sefyll ar ei sail. Mae'n cynnig gobaith mawr i’n pobl. Un peth yr ydym ni yn ei wybod yw bod adolygiad Diamond wedi rhoi myfyrwyr yng Nghymru o flaen y rhai yn Lloegr, a'r hyn yr ydym ni’n ei wybod, wrth gwrs, os bydd y Torïaid yn ennill yr etholiad cyffredinol, wrth gwrs, yw y bydd myfyrwyr yn cael eu taro yn galetach fyth. Byddan nhw’n cael eu gorfodi i dalu hyd yn oed mwy. Felly, un peth yr ydym ni’n ei wybod yw na fydd myfyrwyr byth mewn sefyllfa lle y byddan nhw’n well eu byd o dan y Ceidwadwyr.
 
13:43
Andrew R.T. DaviesBywgraffiadBiography
As per usual, you cut off the quote, and she went on to say what a good job I’m doing [Laughter.] But, if you look at what the offer is on 8 June, it is an offer from the Welsh Conservatives today to abolish Severn bridge tolls and actually deliver a shot in the arm of £100 million to the Welsh economy. A £100 million against the fiscal illiteracy that we see coming out of Labour that I noticed the First Minister has not signed up to or committed to today, yet he sat in the meeting of the national executive last week and put his hand up to spend billions of pounds that this country has not got. It is a fact that if you want to get rid of Severn bridge tolls and put £100 million into the Welsh economy, you need to vote for the Welsh Conservatives, under the strong and stable leadership of Theresa May, unlike the coalition of chaos that Jeremy Corbyn will lead.
Yn yn ôl yr arfer, rydych chi’n teilwra’r dyfyniad, ac aeth yn ei blaen i ddweud gwaith pa mor dda yr wyf yn ei wneud [Chwerthin.] Ond, os edrychwch chi ar y cynnig ar 8 Mehefin, mae'n gynnig gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig heddiw i ddiddymu tollau pont Hafren a rhoi hwb mawr o £100 miliwn i economi Cymru. £100 miliwn yn erbyn yr anllythrennedd cyllidol yr ydym ni’n ei weld gan y Blaid Lafur y sylwais na wnaeth y Prif Weinidog gytuno ag ef nac ymrwymo iddo heddiw, ac eto eisteddodd yng nghyfarfod y weithrediaeth genedlaethol yr wythnos diwethaf a chododd ei law i wario biliynau o bunnoedd nad oes gan y wlad hon mohonynt. Mae'n ffaith, os ydych chi eisiau cael gwared ar dollau pontydd Hafren a rhoi £100 miliwn i economi Cymru, bod angen i chi bleidleisio dros y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, o dan arweinyddiaeth gref a sefydlog Theresa May, yn wahanol i'r glymblaid o anhrefn y bydd Jeremy Corbyn yn ei harwain.
 
13:44
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
I am generous to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives. I want him to stay as their leader—I want him to stay as their leader; Theresa May doesn’t. So I’ll offer him that. He’s right, I want him to stay, but Theresa May doesn’t, and that’s chaos for you. He stands there with the chutzpah—I think the word is—to claim that abolishing the Severn bridge tolls were his idea and his party’s idea. For how many years have we stood in this Chamber demanding the end of the Severn bridge tolls? For years, we were told by his party it was too expensive. We saw estimates of between £20 million and £120 million a year of how much it would cost, and now it’s £7 million. I welcome their conversion—I welcome their conversion—but, at the end of the day, let’s face it, the Conservatives would not have abolished the Severn bridge tolls if it wasn’t for the strong action and strong position taken by this Welsh Government.
Rwy’n hael tuag at arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Rwy’n awyddus iddo aros fel eu harweinydd—rwy’n awyddus iddo aros fel eu harweinydd; nid yw Theresa May. Felly rwyf yn cynnig hynny iddo. Mae'n iawn, rwyf eisiau iddo aros, ond nid yw Theresa May, ac mae hynny'n anhrefn i chi. Mae'n sefyll yno gyda'r hyfdra—rwy’n credu yw’r gair—i honni mai ei syniad ef a syniad ei blaid ef oedd diddymu tollau pont Hafren. Sawl blwyddyn ydym ni wedi sefyll yn y Siambr hon yn gofyn am derfyn ar dollau pont Hafren? Ers blynyddoedd, dywedodd ei blaid ef wrthym ei fod yn rhy ddrud. Gwelsom amcangyfrifon rhwng £20 miliwn a £120 ond £7 miliwn ydyw erbyn hyn. Rwy'n croesawu eu troedigaeth—rwy’n croesawu eu troedigaeth—ond, yn y pen draw, gadewch i ni fod yn onest, ni fyddai'r Ceidwadwyr wedi diddymu tollau pont Hafren oni bai am y camau cryf a’r safbwynt cryf a gymerwyd gan y Llywodraeth Cymru hon.
 
13:45
Y Llywydd / The LlywyddBywgraffiadBiography
Arweinydd grŵp UKIP, Neil Hamilton.
Leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.
 
13:45
Neil HamiltonBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd Grŵp UKIP Cymru / Leader of the UKIP Wales Group
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit Secretary, was in Wales a few days ago and I see from a Welsh Labour press release that he said that Conservative Brexit negotiations pose a danger to the hugely successful campaign to recruit more doctors in Wales. Can the First Secretary tell us how many extra doctors from the EU this campaign has managed to recruit?
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Roedd Syr Keir Starmer, Ysgrifennydd Brexit yr wrthblaid, yng Nghymru ychydig ddyddiau yn ôl ac rwy’n gweld o ddatganiad i'r wasg gan Llafur Cymru ei fod wedi dweud bod trafodaethau Brexit Ceidwadol yn peryglu’r ymgyrch hynod lwyddiannus i recriwtio mwy o feddygon yng Nghymru. A all y Prif Weinidog ddweud wrthym faint o feddygon ychwanegol o’r UE y mae’r ymgyrch hon wedi llwyddo i’w recriwtio?
 
13:45
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
We do know that 5.8 per cent of our medical staff are from the EU. We know that there is interest from the UK and abroad. The reality is that every single health system anywhere in the world competes in a world market. It is folly to think that, somehow, the UK can train and recruit all its own doctors within the UK. And so nobody said to me on the doorstep, nor to him, ‘What we need, you see, are fewer doctors and nurses from abroad.’ Nobody said that. So, it’s vitally important that we’re still seen as a welcoming place to get the best and the brightest to work in our health service.
Rydym ni’n gwybod bod 5.8 y cant o'n staff meddygol yn dod o'r UE. Rydym ni’n gwybod bod diddordeb o’r DU a thramor. Y gwir yw bod pob un system iechyd yn unrhyw fan yn y byd yn cystadlu mewn marchnad fyd-eang. Mae'n ffolineb meddwl, rywsut, y gall y DU hyfforddi a recriwtio ei holl feddygon ei hun o fewn y DU. Ac felly nid oes neb yn dweud wrthyf i ar garreg y drws, nac wrtho yntau, "Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom ni, rydych chi’n gweld, yw llai o feddygon a nyrsys o dramor.' Ni ddywedodd neb hynny. Felly, mae'n hanfodol bwysig ein bod ni’n dal i gael ein gweld fel lle croesawgar i gael y gorau a'r mwyaf disglair i weithio yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd.
 
13:46
I agree with that. The actual figure is seven extra doctors have been recruited this year, compared with the same figure last year—not all of whom, or indeed perhaps none of whom, will have come from the EU. Therefore, this seems to be rather irrelevant to the whole question of the Brexit negotiations. But what Sir Keir Starmer seemed to be trying to do was to instil some sort of fear in the minds of those who might be susceptible to his words, that after Brexit we are going to turn away potential doctors and nurses from the United Kingdom. I’m sure the First Minister knows, in his heart of hearts, that this is a preposterous idea and that Australia, for example, has a very strict immigration system based upon points, which are awarded in order to fill various skills gaps in their economy, and the United Kingdom will be just the same. So, why doesn’t the First Minister get on board with the Brexit negotiations and try and make a success, instead of trying to be an obstacle to progress all the time?
Rwy’n cytuno â hynny. Y ffigur gwirioneddol yw y recriwtiwyd saith o feddygon ychwanegol eleni, o'i gymharu â'r un ffigur y llynedd—ac ni fydd pob un ohonynt, neu efallai yr un ohonynt, yn wir, wedi dod o'r UE. Felly, mae’n ymddangos bod hyn yn amherthnasol braidd i'r holl gwestiwn o'r trafodaethau Brexit. Ond yr hyn yr oedd yn ymddangos yr oedd Syr Keir Starmer yn ceisio ei wneud oedd meithrin rhyw fath o ofn ym meddyliau'r rhai a allai fod yn agored i’w eiriau, ein bod ni’n mynd i droi meddygon a nyrsys posibl i ffwrdd o'r Deyrnas Unedig ar ôl Brexit. Rwy'n siŵr bod y Prif Weinidog yn gwybod, yn ei galon, bod hwn yn syniad hurt a bod gan Awstralia, er enghraifft, system fewnfudo lem iawn yn seiliedig ar bwyntiau, sy'n cael eu dyfarnu er mwyn llenwi gwahanol fylchau sgiliau yn eu heconomi, a bydd y Deyrnas Unedig yn union yr un fath. Felly, pam na wnaiff y Prif Weinidog gefnogi’r trafodaethau Brexit a cheisio cael llwyddiant, yn hytrach na cheisio bod yn rhwystr i gynnydd drwy'r amser?
 
13:47
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Can he not see that, handled badly, doctors and nurses will get the impression that the UK does not want them? It’s already there. It’s already there because the issue of mutual recognition of residency rights has not yet been dealt with. Nobody—nobody—wants to see people not be able to stay in the UK, or UK citizens unable to stay in the rest of the EU. Nobody wants that, but there is no agreement on it yet, and it’s hugely important that that is done as quickly as possible, to my mind, in advance of the substantive negotiations over Brexit. But it is hugely important that we’re able to recruit from abroad. My great fear is that we end up with a cap on immigration every year, that there is a cap in each sector, that the city gets the lion’s share in order to protect banking and finance, and we end up, because of that cap, unable to recruit doctors and nurses into Wales. That, I think, would be a foolish way of dealing with the issue.
Onid yw’n gallu gweld, o ymdrin â’r sefyllfa’n wael, y bydd meddygon a nyrsys yn cael yr argraff nad yw'r DU eu heisiau? Mae yno eisoes. Mae yno eisoes oherwydd nad ymdriniwyd â’r mater o gyd-gydnabod hawliau preswyl eto. Nid oes neb—neb—eisiau gweld pobl ddim yn cael aros yn y DU, na dinasyddion y DU ddim yn cael aros yng ngweddill yr UE. Nid oes neb eisiau hynny, ond nid oes cytundeb arno eto, ac mae'n hynod bwysig bod hynny'n cael ei wneud cyn gynted â phosibl, yn fy marn i, cyn y prif drafodaethau ynghylch Brexit. Ond mae'n hynod bwysig ein bod ni’n gallu recriwtio o dramor. Fy ofn mawr i yw y bydd gennym ni gap ar fewnfudo bob blwyddyn yn y pen draw, bod cap ym mhob sector, bod dinas Llundain yn cael y gyfran helaeth er mwyn diogelu bancio a chyllid, ac na fyddwn ni, yn y pen draw, oherwydd y cap, yn gallu recriwtio meddygon a nyrsys i Gymru. Rwy’n credu y byddai hynny’n ffordd ffôl o ymdrin â'r mater hwn.
 
13:47
It is inconceivable that any cap that is introduced is going to work in such a way as to prevent the NHS filling skills gaps, particularly of professional people. But—[Interruption.] But the First Minister will also know that, two years ago, the Bank of England did an in-depth study of the impact of migration upon wage levels at the lower end of the income scale—people like cleaners and care workers and waiting staff in the health service—and it concluded that unlimited immigration from the EU and other parts of the world of unskilled and semi-skilled workers reduces wages by a factor of 2 per cent in relation to a 10 per cent rise in the proportion of immigrants in those sectors. So, what’s happening here is actually that wage levels are being compressed for the people who can least afford it, whilst there is actually no danger, as a result of the Brexit negotiations, to the numbers of doctors and nurses being recruited from outside the UK.
Mae'n annirnadwy y bydd unrhyw gap a gyflwynir yn gweithio yn y fath fodd ag i atal y GIG rhag llenwi bylchau sgiliau, yn enwedig o ran pobl broffesiynol. Ond—[Torri ar draws.] Ond bydd y Prif Weinidog hefyd yn gwybod, ddwy flynedd yn ôl, bod Banc Lloegr wedi cynnal astudiaeth fanwl o effaith mudo ar lefelau cyflogau ar ben isaf y raddfa incwm—pobl fel glanhawyr a gweithwyr gofal a staff gweini yn y gwasanaeth iechyd—a daeth i'r casgliad bod gweithwyr heb sgiliau a lled-grefftus o’r UE a rhannau eraill o'r byd yn mewnfudo heb gyfyngiad yn lleihau cyflogau o ffactor o 2 y cant o’i gymharu â chynnydd o 10 y cant i gyfran y mewnfudwyr yn y sectorau hynny. Felly, yr hyn sy'n digwydd yma mewn gwirionedd yw bod lefelau cyflog yn cael eu cywasgu ar gyfer y bobl sy'n gallu ei fforddio leiaf, er nad oes unrhyw berygl mewn gwirionedd, o ganlyniad i'r trafodaethau Brexit, i nifer y meddygon a’r nyrsys sy’n cael eu recriwtio o'r tu allan i'r DU.
 
13:48
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, no—if there is to be a cap, a cap is a cap. You can’t say, ‘Well, the cap doesn’t exist for certain professions.’ And that is something that we need, to my mind, to avoid. We have 80,000 EU citizens in Wales, out of 3 million people, so it’s a tiny proportion of the population. I take his point that there were many who felt that wages have been depressed as a result. Part of that lies in the fact there’s been a complete failure to prosecute for minimum wage legislation—no prosecutions at all, as far as I’m aware. I have to remind him that, in his former party, they were against the minimum wage, and, as a result of that, that would have driven wages down even further than now. There is exploitation. I’ve heard stories of exploitation of EU citizens who come to Wales. That needs to be cracked down on and it needs to be prosecuted, in the same way that those who try to employ people below the minimum wage, those people who try to get around employment legislation, should be prosecuted according to the law, and the law should be strengthened to ensure that nobody is exploited in the future. That’s exactly what a Labour Government would do in Westminster.
Wel, na—os oes cap i fod, cap yw cap. Ni allwch chi ddweud, 'Wel, nid yw'r cap yn bodoli ar gyfer proffesiynau penodol.' Ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen i ni, yn fy marn i, ei osgoi. Mae gennym ni 80,000 o ddinasyddion yr UE yng Nghymru, o 3 miliwn o bobl, felly mae'n gyfran fechan iawn o'r boblogaeth. Rwy'n derbyn ei bwynt bod llawer o oedd yn teimlo bod cyflogau wedi cael eu gostwng o ganlyniad. Mae rhan o hynny oherwydd y ffaith y bu methiant llwyr i erlyn ar sail deddfwriaeth isafswm cyflog—dim erlyniadau o gwbl, cyn belled ag y gwn i. Mae'n rhaid i mi ei atgoffa, yn ei blaid flaenorol, iddyn nhw wrthwynebu’r isafswm cyflog, ac, o ganlyniad i hynny, byddai hynny wedi gyrru cyflogau i lawr hyd yn oed ymhellach na nawr. Ceir achosion o gam-fanteisio. Rwyf i wedi clywed hanesion o gam-fanteisio ar ddinasyddion yr UE sy'n dod i Gymru. Mae angen atal hynny ac mae angen ei erlyn, yn yr un modd y dylid erlyn y rheini sy'n ceisio cyflogi pobl islaw’r isafswm cyflog, y bobl hynny sy'n ceisio osgoi deddfwriaeth cyflogaeth, yn ôl y gyfraith, a dylid cryfhau’r gyfraith i sicrhau nad oes neb yn dioddef cam-fanteisio yn y dyfodol. Dyna’n union y byddai Llywodraeth Lafur yn ei wneud yn San Steffan.
 
13:49
Y Llywydd / The LlywyddBywgraffiadBiography
Arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
Leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
 
13:49
Leanne WoodBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd Plaid Cymru / The Leader of Plaid Cymru
Diolch, Llywydd. Last week, the successful Time to Change campaign launched a pilot scheme in nine schools to tackle mental health discrimination and stigma. If this scheme is successful, we should see more young people coming forward to seek help for problems that they might have. So, can you tell us what additional funds you’ve made available for school counsellors and for training for teachers to deal with this extra demand?
Diolch, Llywydd. Yr wythnos diwethaf, lansiodd ymgyrch lwyddiannus Amser i Newid gynllun arbrofol mewn naw ysgol i fynd i'r afael â gwahaniaethu a stigma iechyd meddwl. Os bydd y cynllun hwn yn llwyddiannus, dylem weld mwy o bobl ifanc yn dod ymlaen i gael cymorth ar gyfer y problemau a allai fod ganddynt. Felly, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym pa arian ychwanegol yr ydych chi wedi ei roi ar gael ar gyfer cwnselwyr ysgol ac ar gyfer hyfforddiant i athrawon ymdrin â’r galw ychwanegol hwn?
 
13:50
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, every school, of course, has a school counsellor, and she will know we’ve ring-fenced funding for health and put, I think, £8.6 million a year extra into child and adolescent mental health services. And we’ve seen a massive reduction in the waiting times with regard to having an appointment within 28 days.
Wel, mae gan bob ysgol, wrth gwrs, gwnselydd ysgol, a bydd hi’n gwybod ein bod ni wedi neilltuo arian ar gyfer iechyd a rhoi, rwy’n meddwl, £8.6 miliwn y flwyddyn yn ychwanegol i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl plant a'r glasoed. Ac rydym ni wedi gweld gostyngiad enfawr i’r amseroedd aros o ran cael apwyntiad o fewn 28 diwrnod.
 
13:50
We’ve not seen a massive reduction in waiting times, First Minister. You can fairly say that waiting times are no worse than they were before, but you can’t say that they are improved. It’s not clear at all what those improved outcomes are from this extra spending, but what we do know is that the number of children requiring counselling is going up, and that’s a good thing, because, hopefully, that means that problems can be prevented before they become severe and require specialist help. However, we know that many schools don’t have enough counsellors or teachers with training to help those pupils who may need it. Also, we’ve seen a reduction in local authority youth workers—a staggering 40 per cent in that workforce as a decrease. This is clearly going to have an impact on whether the children experiencing the low-level mental health problems are going to be able to get the support that they need, particularly as your Government has raised the threshold for accessing specialist CAMHS. I spoke recently to someone who works with care leavers, who told me that they’re only able to refer young people who are at risk of suicide. They have no capacity in the system to work on mental health prevention. Is that situation acceptable to you, First Minister? When is there going to be an early intervention service, that’s so badly needed?
Nid ydym wedi gweld gostyngiad enfawr i amseroedd aros, Prif Weinidog. Gallwch ddweud yn deg bod amseroedd aros yn ddim gwaeth nag yr oeddent o'r blaen, ond ni allwch ddweud eu bod yn well. Nid yw'n eglur o gwbl beth yw’r canlyniadau gwell hynny o’r gwariant ychwanegol hwn, ond yr hyn yr ydym ni’n ei wybod yw bod nifer y plant sydd angen cwnsela yn cynyddu, ac mae hynny'n beth da, oherwydd, gobeithio, mae’n golygu y gall problemau gael eu hatal cyn iddynt droi’n ddifrifol a bod angen cymorth arbenigol. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom nad oes gan lawer o ysgolion ddigon o gwnselwyr neu athrawon sydd wedi eu hyfforddi i helpu'r disgyblion hynny a allai fod angen cymorth. Hefyd, rydym ni wedi gweld gostyngiad i weithwyr ieuenctid awdurdod lleol—canran syfrdanol o 40 y cant yn y gweithlu hwnnw fel gostyngiad. Mae hyn yn amlwg yn mynd i gael effaith ar ba un a yw’r plant sy'n dioddef problemau iechyd meddwl lefel isel yn mynd i allu cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt, yn enwedig gan fod eich Llywodraeth wedi codi’r trothwy ar gyfer cael mynediad at CAMHS arbenigol. Siaradais yn ddiweddar â rhywun sy'n gweithio gyda’r rhai sy'n gadael gofal, a ddywedodd wrthyf nad ydynt ond yn gallu atgyfeirio pobl ifanc sydd mewn perygl o gyflawni hunanladdiad. Nid oes ganddynt unrhyw allu yn y system i weithio ar atal iechyd meddwl. A yw’r sefyllfa honno’n dderbyniol i chi, Prif Weinidog? Pa bryd y gwelwn ni wasanaeth ymyrraeth gynnar, y mae angen mor daer amdano?
 
13:52
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, as I said to her before, there is a counsellor in each secondary school in Wales. Health boards have committed to meet the 28-day target by the end of March. They’ve made great strides to reduce the numbers waiting over the last 12 to 18 months. One example: in Betsi Cadwaladr, we’ve seen the percentage of CAMHS referrals seen within 28 days go from 21 per cent in April last year to 84.5 per cent in February this year. That’s an enormous improvement in the time required to get a first appointment. So, the money that we’ve put in—the extra money we’ve put in—to CAMHS, together with the counselling that’s available in schools, is bearing fruit.
Wel, fel y dywedais wrthi o'r blaen, mae cwnselydd ym mhob ysgol uwchradd yng Nghymru. Mae byrddau iechyd wedi ymrwymo i gyrraedd y targed 28 diwrnod erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth. Maen nhw wedi cymryd camau breision i leihau'r nifer sy'n aros yn ystod y 12 i 18 mis diwethaf. Un enghraifft: yn Betsi Cadwaladr, rydym ni wedi gweld y ganran o atgyfeiriadau CAMHS sy’n cael eu gweld o fewn 28 diwrnod yn mynd o 21 y cant ym mis Ebrill y llynedd i 84.5 y cant ym mis Chwefror eleni. Mae hynny’n welliant enfawr yn yr amser sydd ei angen i gael apwyntiad cyntaf. Felly, mae'r arian yr ydym ni wedi ei roi i mewn—yr arian ychwanegol yr ydym ni wedi ei roi i mewn—i CAMHS, ynghyd â'r cwnsela sydd ar gael mewn ysgolion, yn dwyn ffrwyth.
 
13:52
You’re giving the wrong impression, First Minister, because it’s true to say that the waiting lists are no worse than before, and, overall, you cannot say—. You cannot claim, overall, throughout Wales, that they are better. Now, children and young people with mental health difficulties go an average of 10 years—10 years—before they receive specialist help. These are the people who are likely to be the most ill, and also who cost our services the most money. It didn’t have to happen this way, that we have the kind of teenage mental health early intervention scheme—that we don’t have—that we badly need. We know, don’t we, that self-harm is the second biggest killer of teenage girls globally. Are we going to have to wait for 16-year-olds to have the vote before the mental health of our children and young people gets the proper priority that it deserves?
Rydych chi’n rhoi'r argraff anghywir, Prif Weinidog, oherwydd mae’n wir i ddweud nad yw’r rhestrau aros yn ddim gwaeth nag o'r blaen, ac, ar y cyfan, ni allwch ddweud—. Ni allwch hawlio, yn gyffredinol, ledled Cymru, eu bod nhw’n well. Nawr, mae’n 10 mlynedd—10 mlynedd—ar gyfartaledd cyn i blant a phobl ifanc ag anawsterau iechyd meddwl gael cymorth arbenigol. Dyma'r bobl sy'n debygol o fod y rhai mwyaf sâl, ac sydd hefyd yn costio’r mwyaf o arian i’n gwasanaethau. Nid oedd yn rhaid i bethau ddigwydd fel hyn, bod gennym ni’r math o gynllun ymyrraeth gynnar iechyd meddwl i bobl yn eu harddegau—nad oes gennym ni—y mae ei hangen arnom yn daer. Rydym ni’n gwybod, onid ydym, mai hunan-niweidio yw'r lladdwr mwyaf o ferched yn eu harddegau yn fyd-eang. A ydym ni’n mynd i orfod aros i bobl 16 oed gael y bleidlais cyn i iechyd meddwl ein plant a’n pobl ifanc gael y flaenoriaeth briodol y mae'n ei haeddu?
 
13:53
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, some of us do have children, and I have a 16-year-old daughter, so I know the pressures that exist on young people, particularly through social media. That’s something that didn’t exist when I was 16, and so any bullying stayed at the school gates and didn’t tend to move beyond that. I know some of the things that are said online, and I know that, when youngsters are at their most vulnerable in terms of their confidence, they can be very deeply affected by that. But she gives the—. She didn’t listen to the figures that I gave to her. I talked about Betsi and I said, ‘Look, the percentage of CAMHS—
Wel, mae gan rai ohonom ni blant, ac mae gen i ferch 16 oed, felly rwy'n gwybod y pwysau sy'n bodoli ar bobl ifanc, yn enwedig trwy gyfryngau cymdeithasol. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth nad oedd yn bodoli pan oeddwn i’n 16 oed, ac felly roedd unrhyw fwlio yn aros wrth gatiau'r ysgol ac nid oedd yn tueddu i symud y tu hwnt i hynny. Gwn am rai o'r pethau sy'n cael eu dweud ar-lein, a gwn, pan fo pobl ifanc fwyaf agored i niwed o ran eu hyder, y gallant gael eu heffeithio'n ddwfn iawn gan hynny. Ond mae hi’n rhoi’r—. Ni wnaeth hi wrando ar y ffigurau a roddais iddi. Soniais am Betsi a dywedais, 'Edrychwch, mae canran y CAMHS—
 
13:54
I’m talking about the nation.
Am y genedl yr wyf i’n sôn.
 
13:54
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, she can shout as much as she wants. She’s had three questions already, right. Again, Bet