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Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (y Fonesig Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Presiding Officer (Dame Rosemary Butler) in the Chair.
 
13:30
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Good afternoon. The National Assembly for Wales is now in session.
Prynhawn da. Mae Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn awr yn eistedd.
 
1. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
1. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
The first item this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and question 1 is from Gwenda Thomas.
Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yw’r eitem gyntaf y prynhawn yma, a daw cwestiwn 1 gan Gwenda Thomas.
 
Practisiau Meddygon Teulu
General Medical Practitioners’ Practices
 
13:30
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am weinyddu practisiau meddygon teulu sy'n croesi ffiniau byrddau iechyd lleol? OAQ(4)0586(HSS)
1. Will the Minister make a statement on the administration of general medical practitioners’ practices that cross local health board boundaries? OAQ(4)0586(HSS)
 
13:30
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiographyY Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol / The Minister for Health and Social Services
Patients flow across administrative boundaries every day in Wales and local health boards have to work collaboratively to respond effectively to their needs.
Mae cleifion yn croesi ffiniau gweinyddol bob dydd yng Nghymru ac mae’n rhaid i fyrddau iechyd lleol gydweithio i ymateb yn effeithiol i’w hanghenion.
 
13:30
Thank you, Minister. There is a good example of cross-local health boundaries co-operation in the Amman and Swansea valleys. Hywel Dda and Abertawe Bro Morgannwg university health boards have awarded the contract to provide GP services for various communities in both valleys to the Amman Tawe Partnership. This partnership will, from Monday 1 June, be responsible for the healthcare of around 12,000 people. They will be accountable to ABMU health board for 8,000 and Hywel Dda for 4,000. Minister, will you ensure that this collaboration between health boards and general medical practitioners acts as an example of good practice regarding co-operative working across local health board boundaries?
Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Ceir enghraifft dda o gydweithredu ar draws ffiniau iechyd lleol yng Nghwm Aman a ChwmTawe. Mae byrddau iechyd prifysgol Hywel Dda ac Abertawe Bro Morgannwg wedi dyfarnu’r contract i ddarparu gwasanaethau meddyg teulu ar gyfer gwahanol gymunedau yn y ddau gwm i Bartneriaeth Aman Tawe. Bydd y bartneriaeth hon, o ddydd Llun 1 Mehefin, yn gyfrifol am ofal iechyd tua 12,000 o bobl. Byddant yn atebol i fwrdd iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg am 8,000 o bobl ac i Hywel Dda am 4,000 o bobl. Weinidog, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod y cydweithio hwn rhwng byrddau iechyd ac ymarferwyr meddygol cyffredinol yn gweithredu fel enghraifft o arfer da o ran cydweithio ar draws ffiniau byrddau iechyd lleol?
 
13:31
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I’m very grateful to Gwenda Thomas for bringing that to the Assembly’s attention, because we discussed it here in the past and undoubtedly, the changes to general medical services in that part of Wales has in the past been a matter of concern to local populations. It’s extremely good news that we now have a new permanent contract that will serve patients on both sides of the health borders. There will be six different sites, I know, where the practice will operate from, and patients from Hywel Dda or ABMU will be able to attend whichever site they find most advantageous to them. I saw the press release that the two health boards had put out jointly. I was very taken by the quote in there from Dr Duncan Williams, who will be the lead GP in the new practice, when he said that he and his colleagues were delighted and privileged to be able to continue to provide a service to that part of Wales.
Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn i Gwenda Thomas am ddod â hynny i sylw’r Cynulliad, gan ein bod wedi ei drafod yma yn y gorffennol ac yn ddi-os, mae’r newidiadau i’r gwasanaethau meddygol cyffredinol yn y rhan honno o Gymru wedi bod yn destun pryder i boblogaethau lleol yn y gorffennol. Mae’r ffaith fod gennym gontract parhaol newydd bellach a fydd yn gwasanaethu cleifion ar ddwy ochr y ffiniau iechyd yn newyddion eithriadol o dda. Gwn y bydd y practis yn gweithredu o chwe safle gwahanol, a bydd cleifion o fwrdd iechyd Hywel Dda neu Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg yn gallu mynd i ba safle bynnag sydd fwyaf manteisiol iddynt. Gwelais y datganiad i’r wasg a gafodd ei gyflwyno gan y ddau fwrdd iechyd ar y cyd. Fe’m trawyd yn fawr gan y dyfyniad ynddo gan Dr Duncan Williams, a fydd yn gweithio fel y prif feddyg teulu yn y practis newydd, pan ddywedodd ei fod ef a’i gydweithwyr wrth eu bodd a’i bod yn fraint iddynt allu parhau i ddarparu gwasanaeth i’r rhan honno o Gymru.
 
13:32
I’m pleased that Gwenda Thomas has raised this question. There is clearly an issue and some problems with services across local health board boundaries. Would you agree with me that those problems are magnified when it comes to issues along the England/Wales border? All of us with constituencies along that border are aware of constituent concerns about the compatibility of NHS services. What guidance are you giving to local health boards and to GPs, so that where those cross-border issues come into play, they can be dealt with swiftly and smoothly?
Rwy’n falch fod Gwenda Thomas wedi gofyn y cwestiwn hwn. Mae’n amlwg fod problem ac mae rhai problemau gyda gwasanaethau ar draws ffiniau byrddau iechyd lleol. A fyddech yn cytuno â mi fod y problemau hynny’n cael eu chwyddo wrth ystyried materion ar hyd ffin Cymru/Lloegr? Mae pob un ohonom sydd ag etholaethau ar hyd y ffin yn ymwybodol o bryderon etholwyr am gysondeb gwasanaethau’r GIG. Pa ganllawiau rydych yn eu rhoi i fyrddau iechyd lleol ac i feddygon teulu, fel y gellid trin y materion trawsffiniol hynny, pan fyddant yn codi, yn gyflym ac yn llyfn?
 
13:33
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I thank Nick Ramsay for that. There is an agreed protocol between the Welsh Government and the Department of Health that deals with cross-border flows between England and Wales. This whole topic was extensively discussed at the Welsh Affairs Committee, which reported on it just before the break for the general election. The truth is, Llywydd, that thousands more patients who live in England receive their primary care from the Welsh NHS than is true in the opposite direction. We know from that inquiry, because they gave evidence to it, how much they value the service that they’re provided by the Welsh NHS, and my aim is to try and make sure that, for people on either side of the border, it is their clinical needs that come first rather than any administrative complexities.
Diolch i Nick Ramsay am hynny. Mae protocol y cytunwyd arno rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a’r Adran Iechyd sy’n ymdrin â’r llif trawsffiniol rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Cafodd y pwnc hwn yn ei gyfanrwydd ei drafod yn helaeth yn y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig, a gyflwynodd adroddiad yn ei gylch cyn y toriad ar gyfer yr etholiad cyffredinol. Y gwir yw, Lywydd, fod miloedd yn fwy o gleifion sy’n byw yn Lloegr yn cael gofal sylfaenol gan y GIG yng Nghymru na’r ffordd arall rownd. Rydym yn gwybod o’r ymchwiliad hwnnw, am eu bod wedi cyfrannu tystiolaeth iddo, cymaint y maent yn gwerthfawrogi’r gwasanaeth a gânt gan y GIG yng Nghymru, a fy nod yw ceisio gwneud yn siŵr, i bobl ar y naill ochr a’r llall i’r ffin, mai eu hanghenion clinigol sy’n dod yn gyntaf yn hytrach nag unrhyw gymhlethdodau gweinyddol.
 
13:34
Yn ogystal â’r arfer da a’r newyddion da sydd wedi dod o ddyffryn Aman, mae her debyg yn ein hwynebu yn y canolbarth gyda sefydlu’r bwrdd ar y cyd, yn gweithio gyda gofal yn y canolbarth, yn seiliedig ar ysbyty Bronglais a thu hwnt. Mae’r gwaith yn bositif ac yn gadarnhaol ac mae’n dda gen i weld bod y bwrdd wedi cychwyn ar hyn. Ond, mae ambell feddygfa wedi arfer â delio mewn ffordd draddodiadol, delio gyda’r naill ysbyty yn hytrach na’r llall, ac ambell un i’r dwyrain, wrth gwrs, yn delio gyda Lloegr. Beth felly fyddwch chi’n gallu ei wneud fel Llywodraeth i gefnogi, os nad ailwampio, ailfeddwl rhai o’r gwasanaethau yma er mwyn sicrhau bod ysbyty Bronglais yn ganolfan i’r math yma o ofal, fel sydd wedi ei freuddwydio amdano, fel petai, yn yr adroddiad?
In addition to the good practice and the good news that has come from the Amman valley, there is a similar challenge facing us in mid Wales with the establishment of the joint board, working on care in mid Wales, based around Bronglais hospital and beyond. The work is positive and I am pleased to see that the board has commenced this work. However, there are a few surgeries that have become used to dealing with things in a traditional manner, such as dealing with one hospital rather than another, and some in the east, of course, deal with hospitals in England. So, what can you as a Government do to support if not the reconfiguration then the rethinking of some of these services to ensure that Bronglais hospital is a centre for this kind of care, as has been envisaged in the report?
 
13:35
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Diolch i Simon Thomas. Mae’r pwynt y mae e’n ei godi yn dod mas o adroddiad yr Athro Marcus Longley, a oedd yn dweud yr un peth, sef bod y dyfodol yn dibynnu ar bobl yn gweithio mewn ffyrdd newydd ac yn gweithio mewn ffyrdd fwy hyblyg nag yn y gorffennol. Rwyf wedi cael adborth yn ôl nawr, ar ôl cyfarfod cyntaf y grŵp newydd. Maen nhw wedi sefydlu nifer o dasgluoedd, ac rwyf fi’n hyderus, achos maen nhw’n arwain ar y pynciau y mae Simon Thomas wedi eu codi, y bydd hi’n bosibl i greu diwylliant newydd yn y dyfodol, ble mae pobl yn gallu ailfeddwl am y ffordd y maen nhw wedi gwneud pethau o’r blaen, a gwneud pethau mewn ffordd fwy effeithiol yn y dyfodol.
May I thank Simon Thomas? The point that he raise stems from Professor Marcus Longley’s report, which stated the same thing, namely that the future is dependent on people working in new ways and in more flexible ways than in the past. I have received feedback following the first meeting of the new group. They’ve established a number of taskforces, and I’m confident, because they are taking the lead on the issues that Simon Thomas has raised, that it will be possible to create a new culture in the future where people will be able to rethink the way in which they were doing things previously, which means that they will be able to do things in a more effective way in the future.
 
13:36
John GriffithsBywgraffiadBiography
Minister, you’ve just stated some facts about cross-border flows in terms of healthcare, yet, in the run up to the general election, we saw the Conservatives constantly referring to so-called refugees from Wales seeking healthcare in England. Would you agree with me that this denigration of the quality of national health service services in Wales, and misinformation, needlessly arouses concern and is damaging to both the health service in Wales and its patients?
Weinidog, rydych chi newydd nodi rhai ffeithiau am lif trawsffiniol o ran gofal iechyd, ac eto, yn y cyfnod cyn yr etholiad cyffredinol, gwelsom y Ceidwadwyr yn cyfeirio’n gyson at yr hyn a elwir yn ffoaduriaid o Gymru yn chwilio am ofal iechyd yn Lloegr. A fyddech yn cytuno â mi fod yr athrod hwn ar ansawdd gwasanaethau’r GIG yng Nghymru, a’r camwybodaeth, yn ennyn pryder diangen a’i fod yn niweidiol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru yn ogystal â’i gleifion?
 
13:36
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Of course, I do agree with John Griffiths on that, and I hope very much, now that the general election is out of the way, that we’ll see no repetition of that sort of language, which, as he says, is neither a reflection of the facts. More patients from England are using services in Wales than ever before. We don’t regard them as refugees from what’s going elsewhere. They come to Wales because that’s the right place for them to receive treatment, and we expect Welsh patients who travel in the opposite direction to be treated with equal respect.
Wrth gwrs, rwy’n cytuno â John Griffiths ar hynny, ac rwy’n gobeithio’n fawr iawn, gan fod yr etholiad cyffredinol wedi dod i ben bellach, na fyddwn yn clywed siarad o’r fath yn cael ei ailadrodd, gan nad yw, fel y dywed, yn adlewyrchu’r ffeithiau. Mae mwy o gleifion o Loegr yn defnyddio gwasanaethau yng Nghymru nag erioed o’r blaen. Nid ydym yn eu hystyried yn ffoaduriaid o’r hyn sy’n digwydd mewn mannau eraill. Maent yn dod i Gymru oherwydd mai dyma’r lle iawn iddynt gael triniaeth, ac rydym yn disgwyl i gleifion o Gymru sy’n teithio i’r cyfeiriad arall gael eu trin gyda’r un parch.
 
Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol (Ysbyty Glan Clwyd)
General Practitioners (Ysbyty Glan Clwyd)
 
13:37
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am wasanaethau ymarferwyr cyffredinol y tu allan i oriau arferol yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd? OAQ(4)0603(HSS)
2. Will the Minister make a statement on out-of-hours GP services at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd? OAQ(4)0603(HSS)
 
13:37
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiographyY Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd / The Deputy Minister for Health
Thank you for the question. The out-of-hours service in the Glan Clwyd area operates from new premises based in Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. The service is integrated with the emergency department, and patients can be directed to the most appropriate service for their needs. Over the last two weekends, more than 1,000 calls were responded to by the central area team around Ysbyty Glan Clwyd.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yn ardal Glan Clwyd yn gweithredu o adeiladau newydd yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Mae’r gwasanaeth wedi ei integreiddio â’r adran achosion brys, a gellir cyfeirio cleifion at y gwasanaeth mwyaf priodol ar gyfer eu hanghenion. Dros y ddau benwythnos diwethaf, ymatebodd y tîm ardal canolog o amgylch Ysbyty Glan Clwyd i fwy na 1,000 o alwadau.
 
13:37
Thank you, Deputy Minister, for that. What I want to do is to develop the question I put to the Minister following the report last week, and to ask whether the Welsh Government will now talk to Betsi Cadwaladr management about the use of salaried GPs. Now, this is something I’ve been talking about, but I do believe that, if we get instances—and they have a brand-new building, and it works well, and I think it’s situated in the right place, alongside the A&E—what I don’t want to see happening is people going to A&E unnecessarily, and they should be able to use either out-of-office hours or Choose Well. So, if we have a problem with recruitment of GPs to staff the out-of-hours session, is it not time now to sit down and seriously look at salaried GPs who can be employed to do those shifts, for which they cause problems in the out-of-hours service?
Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Yr hyn rwyf am ei wneud yw datblygu’r cwestiwn a ofynnais i’r Gweinidog yn dilyn yr adroddiad yr wythnos diwethaf, a gofyn a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn awr yn siarad â rheolwyr Betsi Cadwaladr ynglŷn â’r defnydd o feddygon teulu cyflogedig. Nawr, mae hyn yn rhywbeth rwyf wedi bod yn siarad amdano, ond rwy’n credu, os cawn achosion—ac mae ganddynt adeilad newydd sbon sy’n gweithio’n dda, ac rwy’n credu ei fod wedi cael ei leoli yn y lle cywir, ochr yn ochr â’r Adran Ddamweiniau ac Achosion Brys—yr hyn nad wyf am ei weld yn digwydd yw pobl yn mynd i’r Adran Ddamweiniau ac Achosion Brys yn ddiangen, a dylent allu defnyddio naill ai’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau neu Dewis Doeth. Felly, os oes gennym broblem gyda recriwtio meddygon teulu i staffio’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau, onid yw’n bryd i ni edrych o ddifrif yn awr ar feddygon teulu cyflogedig y gellir eu defnyddio i wneud y sifftiau sy’n achosi problemau yn y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau?
 
13:38
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
I thank the Member for the question, and you make an important and a valid point about the future of the out-of-hours service. We expect that part of the standard provision of GP services will be a greater proportion of salaried GPs, and we expect that to be reflected in the out-of-hours service as well. So, it will be not just a part, but an increasing part of the future, and it’s also important to recognise this is an out-of-hours service—it is not just an out-of-hours GP service. A number of the people calling will want help, advice and treatment from other practitioners in the broad primary care team. So, as we move forward, I expect the model to change, to have more practitioners available, to properly meet the needs of all of those people in Wales who, quite rightly, expect a form of treatment that is appropriate to their needs.
Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn, ac rydych yn gwneud pwynt pwysig a dilys am ddyfodol y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau. Rydym yn disgwyl y bydd cyfran uwch o feddygon teulu cyflogedig yn rhan o’r ddarpariaeth sylfaenol o wasanaethau meddygon teulu, ac rydym yn disgwyl i hynny gael ei adlewyrchu yn y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau hefyd. Felly, nid rhan yn unig fydd hwn, ond rhan gynyddol o’r dyfodol, ac mae hefyd yn bwysig cydnabod mai gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yw hwn—nid gwasanaeth meddyg teulu y tu allan i oriau yn unig. Bydd nifer o’r bobl sy’n ffonio eisiau cymorth, cyngor a thriniaeth gan ymarferwyr eraill yn y tîm gofal sylfaenol cyffredinol. Felly, wrth i ni symud ymlaen, rwy’n disgwyl i’r model newid, i sicrhau bod mwy o ymarferwyr ar gael, i gwrdd ag anghenion pawb yng Nghymru sydd, yn gwbl briodol, yn disgwyl y math o driniaeth sy’n addas i’w hanghenion.
 
13:39
Deputy Minister, the report that was eventually published by the health board last week into GP out-of-hours services in north Wales demonstrated that the health board’s performance was failing against each and every single Welsh service standard set by the Welsh Government. But, of course, the figures for the other health boards in Wales are not easy to access or routinely published in the public domain. What are you going to do to ensure that there’s openness and transparency around the performance of GP out-of-hours services, so that the health boards can be held to account, because, clearly, you’re not holding them to account for their failures?
Ddirprwy Weinidog, roedd yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd yn y diwedd gan y bwrdd iechyd yr wythnos diwethaf ar wasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau yng ngogledd Cymru yn dangos bod perfformiad y bwrdd iechyd yn methu ar bob un safon gwasanaeth ar gyfer Cymru a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Ond wrth gwrs, nid yw’n hawdd cael gafael ar y ffigurau ar gyfer y byrddau iechyd eraill yng Nghymru ac nid ydynt yn cael eu cyhoeddi’n rheolaidd ar gyfer y cyhoedd. Beth rydych chi’n mynd i’w wneud i sicrhau bod agwedd agored a thryloywder ynghlwm wrth berfformiad y gwasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau, er mwyn gallu dwyn y byrddau iechyd i gyfrif, oherwydd mae’n amlwg nad ydych yn eu dwyn i gyfrif am eu methiannau?
 
13:39
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
Well, it was quite a reasonable question until the last particular barbed comment. There are serious points about the future of out-of-hour services and the information that is made available to the public. The question asked about the service based at Glan Clwyd, and that report recognised that there are excellent facilities there. Across north Wales, they’re trialling, and we expect to roll this out, different ways of working in different parts of the team. I expect each health board to take seriously the direction they’ve been given by the Welsh Government on meeting the standards of care, to provide a proper out-of-hours service to all of their population. That’s what we expect. It’s a key part of accessing healthcare to ensure that, as Ann Jones said, people simply don’t default to go into the A&E. We need to ensure that out-of-hours plays its part, as do other parts of the healthcare system that we have here in Wales.
Wel, roedd yn gwestiwn digon rhesymol nes y sylw pigog olaf hwnnw. Mae yna bwyntiau difrifol yn codi am ddyfodol y gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau a’r wybodaeth sydd ar gael i’r cyhoedd. Roedd y cwestiwn yn holi am y gwasanaeth sydd wedi’i leoli yng Nglan Clwyd, ac roedd yr adroddiad yn cydnabod bod cyfleusterau ardderchog yno. Ar draws gogledd Cymru, maent yn treialu ffyrdd gwahanol o weithio mewn gwahanol rannau o’r tîm ac rydym yn disgwyl cyflwyno hyn. Rwy’n disgwyl i bob bwrdd iechyd fod o ddifrif ynglŷn â’r canllawiau y maent wedi eu cael gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar fodloni safonau gofal er mwyn darparu gwasanaeth priodol y tu allan i oriau i’w holl bobl. Dyna a ddisgwyliwn. Mae’n rhan allweddol o gael mynediad at ofal iechyd er mwyn sicrhau, fel y dywedodd Ann Jones, nad yw pobl yn mynd yn syth i’r Adran Ddamweiniau ac Achosion Brys heb ystyried unrhyw opsiwn arall. Mae angen i ni sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yn chwarae ei ran, fel y rhannau eraill o’r system gofal iechyd sydd gennym yma yng Nghymru.
 
13:40
I read the report last week with concern. I’ve also read the report that was put before the quality and safety sub-committee of Betsi Cadwaladr health board yesterday. That refers to concerns that were raised in an NHS Wales audit and assurance services review of the out-of-hours service, but I’ve been unable to find when that review was undertaken. What’s of greater concern to me, as a member of the Public Accounts Committee—given that the questions have been raised previously on governance within Betsi Cadwaladr—is, if you look at appendix 4 of the review, it’s actually littered with references to work that’s been ongoing since 2013, where there’s been no improvement: no evidence, no work done, no minutes and reports not completed. I think, Minister, there’s need for this Welsh Government to get a much closer monitoring role as far as Betsi Cadwaladr is concerned and formal intervention because, clearly, this position is not acceptable. There is also reference, as far as Wrexham is concerned, to deplorable conditions and also the fact that it’s standard practice in Wrexham for people to go to the emergency department and then as soon as they are within the four hours, they’re transferred over to out-of-hours. So, my question is: what will you do to ensure that these recommendations, which were placed before this sub-committee yesterday, do not go exactly the same way as every other report within Betsi Cadwaladr over the last two years?
Roeddwn yn bryderus wrth ddarllen yr adroddiad yr wythnos diwethaf. Rwyf hefyd wedi darllen yr adroddiad a gyflwynwyd i is-bwyllgor ansawdd a diogelwch bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr ddoe. Mae’n cyfeirio at bryderon a grybwyllwyd mewn adolygiad archwilio a sicrwydd gan GIG Cymru ar y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau, ond ni lwyddais i ddod o hyd i’r dyddiad y cynhaliwyd yr adolygiad hwnnw. Yr hyn sy’n peri mwy o bryder i mi, fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus—o ystyried bod y cwestiynau wedi’u gofyn yn flaenorol ar lywodraethu o fewn Betsi Cadwaladr—yw hyn: os edrychwch ar atodiad 4 i’r adolygiad, mae’n frith o gyfeiriadau, mewn gwirionedd, at waith a fu ar y gweill ers 2013, lle na fu unrhyw welliant—dim tystiolaeth, dim gwaith wedi’i wneud, dim cofnodion a dim adroddiadau wedi’u cwblhau. Rwy’n credu, Weinidog, fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gael rôl fonitro lawer fwy manwl mewn perthynas â Betsi Cadwaladr yn ogystal ag ymyrraeth ffurfiol oherwydd mae’n amlwg nad yw’r sefyllfa hon yn dderbyniol. Ceir cyfeiriad, mewn perthynas â Wrecsam, at amodau gresynus ynghyd â’r ffaith ei bod yn arfer safonol yn Wrecsam i bobl fynd i’r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys ac yna cyn gynted â’u bod o fewn y pedair awr, cânt eu trosglwyddo i’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau. Felly, fy nghwestiwn yw: beth a wnewch i sicrhau na fydd yr argymhellion hyn, a gyflwynwyd i’r is-bwyllgor ddoe, yn dilyn yr un trywydd yn union â phob adroddiad arall o fewn Betsi Cadwaladr dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf?
 
13:42
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you for the question at the end. On the report and the response, if you look at what has happened, the health board recognised they had a problem, which is what they should do. They commissioned an independent report; they received that report and now there’s an action plan. My expectation is that they will deal properly and sensibly with the issues that have been highlighted in that report and the actions that they’ve prescribed to improve the service. This is one of the issues that I discuss with every health board in terms of reviewing their performance across a range of issues. It is on the radar of the Welsh Government, and the health board knows perfectly well the challenges they have to face. The point now is whether they will do that and see those services improve.
Diolch am y cwestiwn ar y diwedd. Ar yr adroddiad a’r ymateb, os edrychwch ar yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd, mae’r bwrdd iechyd wedi cydnabod bod ganddynt broblem, sef yr hyn y dylent ei wneud. Comisiynwyd adroddiad annibynnol ganddynt; cyflwynwyd yr adroddiad hwnnw iddynt ac yn awr mae yna gynllun gweithredu yn bodoli. Yr hyn rwy’n ei ddisgwyl yw y byddant yn ymdrin yn briodol ac yn synhwyrol â’r materion a amlygwyd yn yr adroddiad, a’r camau y maent wedi eu pennu i wella’r gwasanaeth. Dyma un o’r materion rwy’n eu trafod â phob bwrdd iechyd o ran adolygu eu perfformiad ar draws ystod o bynciau. Mae ar radar Llywodraeth Cymru, ac mae’r bwrdd iechyd yn gwybod yn iawn am yr heriau sy’n rhaid iddynt eu hwynebu. Y pwynt yn awr yw a ydynt yn mynd i wneud hynny a gweld y gwasanaethau hynny’n gwella.
 
13:42
I understand that Betsi Cadwaladr university health board is piloting an initiative that allows people to go straight to their local pharmacy for repeat prescriptions rather than through the out-of-hours service. Minister, what impact is this having on the out-of-hours service in north Wales and will it then be rolled out across the whole of Wales?
Rwy’n deall bod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn treialu menter sy’n galluogi pobl i fynd yn syth i’w fferyllfa leol am bresgripsiynau amlroddadwy yn hytrach na mynd drwy’r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau. Weinidog, pa effaith y mae hyn yn ei gael ar y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yng ngogledd Cymru ac a fydd yn cael ei gyflwyno ar draws Cymru gyfan ymhen amser?
 
13:43
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
I thank the Member for the question. This is an important point that we should not lose sight of because, previously, the out-of-hours service had a significant amount of its time, energy and effort taken up in providing repeat prescriptions. We’ve changed the way of working with the health board in north Wales to trial this, and we’ve had recent experience back from people working in the out-of-hours service who confirmed that it took out extra capacity that they didn’t need to deal with. People can go to a pharmacy now for those repeat prescriptions if they do run out, and it’s made the service a much better place for the staff, who described the service in Wrexham as a lovely place in which to work over the Easter weekend, whereas, otherwise, they would normally have expected a significant additional volume that would have made it very difficult for them, and it means that they are providing a better service for their patients. So, we’re looking at the evidence, but we do expect to be able to roll out that service across the rest of Wales.
Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Mae hwn yn bwynt pwysig na ddylem golli golwg arno, oherwydd yn flaenorol, roedd cryn dipyn o amser, egni ac ymdrech y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yn cael eu defnyddio ar ddarparu presgripsiynau amlroddadwy. Rydym wedi newid y ffordd o weithio gyda’r bwrdd iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru i dreialu hyn, ac rydym wedi clywed am brofiadau diweddar y bobl sy’n gweithio yn y gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau a oedd yn cadarnhau bod hyn yn creu mwy o waith nad oedd angen iddynt ymdrin ag ef. Gall pobl fynd i fferyllfa yn awr i gael y presgripsiynau amlroddadwy hynny os yw eu meddyginiaeth yn dod i ben, ac mae hynny wedi gwneud y gwasanaeth yn lle gwell o lawer i staff, a ddisgrifiodd y gwasanaeth yn Wrecsam fel lle hyfryd i weithio dros benwythnos y Pasg. Fel arall, byddent wedi disgwyl gweld niferoedd ychwanegol sylweddol o bobl a fyddai wedi ei gwneud yn anodd iawn iddynt, ac mae’n golygu eu bod yn darparu gwasanaeth gwell i’w cleifion. Felly, rydym yn edrych ar y dystiolaeth, ond rydym yn disgwyl gallu cyflwyno’r gwasanaeth hwn ledled gweddill Cymru.
 
Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople
 
13:44
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
We now move to questions to the party spokespeople and first this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Elin Jones.
Symudwn yn awr at gwestiynau i lefarwyr y pleidiau ac yn gyntaf y prynhawn yma, llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Elin Jones.
 
13:44
Weinidog, beth yw eich dadansoddiad chi o’r nifer o welyau acíwt iechyd meddwl yng Nghymru? A oes digon i gwrdd â’r angen?
Minister, what’s your analysis of the number of acute mental health beds in Wales, and is it sufficient to meet the demand?
 
13:44
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Mae digon i gwrdd â’r angen, rwy’n meddwl. Mae mwy o welyau acíwt yma yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr. Nid oes tystiolaeth gennym ni, fel y mae yn Lloegr, o bobl yn teithio’n hir iawn i gael gwelyau. Rydym yn cadw llygad ar bopeth drwy’r amser ond, ar hyn o bryd, rwy’n meddwl fod digon o welyau acíwt gennym ni.
I believe that there is a sufficient number to meet the need. There are more acute beds here in Wales than in England. We have no evidence, as they have in England, of people travelling very long distances to get beds. However, we monitor this very closely, and, at present, I believe that we have a sufficient number of acute beds.
 
13:44
Mae’n rhaid i mi anghytuno â chi ynglŷn â theithio’n hir am wely acíwt iechyd meddwl—nid oes gwely acíwt iechyd meddwl wedi bod rhwng Bangor a Chaerfyrddin ers 2012, pan gaewyd ward Afallon Aberystwyth. Hefyd, mae amcan ffigurau diweddar Cymru a Lloegr—rwy’n derbyn hynny—yn dangos bod tua 20 y cant o gleifion iechyd meddwl brys mewn cell heddlu yn hytrach nag mewn gwely NHS. Nid yw hynny’n awgrymu i fi bod yna leoliadau a lefelau digonol o welyau iechyd meddwl acíwt yng Nghymru. Ac ystyried bod celloedd heddlu yn cael eu defnyddio yng Nghymru, a ydych chi’n dal o’r farn bod y nifer neu lefelau’r gwelyau yn ddigonol?
Well, I must disagree with you on travelling long distances for acute mental health beds—there has been no acute bed between Bangor and Carmarthen since 2012, when the Afallon ward in Aberystwyth was closed. The latest estimate figures for England and Wales—I accept that—show that some 20 per cent of emergency mental health patients are in police cells rather than in NHS beds. That doesn’t suggest to me that there are sufficient numbers of beds and placements available for acute mental health patients in Wales. Given that police cells are being used in Wales, are you still of the opinion that the number or the level of beds is adequate?
 
13:45
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I'm quite definitely of that view, Llywydd. We don't have the same problems as they do in England in terms of patients accessing acute beds in the mental health sector. Actually, the biggest problem I think we have is that there are parts of the Welsh NHS where we have too many acute mental health beds, where there has been an insufficient investment in alternative services in the community, and where the number of beds that we have in some parts of Wales, compared with the population, is far higher than in any other part of England and Wales. So, there is reform that is needed, but it’s not in the direction that the Member suggests.
Rwy’n eithaf sicr o’r farn honno, Lywydd. Nid oes gennym yr un problemau â Lloegr o ran gwelyau acíwt i gleifion yn y sector iechyd meddwl. Mewn gwirionedd, rwy’n credu mai’r broblem fwyaf sydd gennym yw bod gormod o welyau iechyd meddwl acíwt mewn rhannau o’r GIG yng Nghymru, lle na chafwyd digon o fuddsoddiad mewn gwasanaethau amgen yn y gymuned, a lle y mae nifer y gwelyau sydd gennym mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru o’i gymharu â’r boblogaeth yn llawer uwch na mewn unrhyw ran arall o Gymru a Lloegr. Felly, mae angen diwygio, ond nid yn y modd y mae’r Aelod yn ei awgrymu.
 
13:46
Wel, os ydych o’r farn bod yna ormod o welyau mewn rhai mannau yng Nghymru, ac mae’n amlwg bod yna ddiffyg gwelyau mewn mannau eraill—dim gwely o gwbl rhwng Caerfyrddin a Bangor—yna efallai y byddech chi’n hoffi ystyried lleoli'r gwelyau yna mewn ffordd mwy addas ar gyfer y genedl yn gyfan. Fe fyddwch chi yn ymwybodol bod Theresa May heddiw wedi datgan y bydd hi yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth i wahardd y defnydd o gelloedd heddlu ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl. Tybed a ydy hi wedi trafod hynny gyda chi, a tybed a ydych chi o’r farn efallai nad yw hynny yn mynd yn ddigon pell, a bod angen nawr inni fod yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth a fydd yn gwahardd y defnydd o gelloedd heddlu ar gyfer oedolion yn ogystal â phlant a phobl ifanc.
Well, if you are of the view that there are too many beds in certain parts of Wales, and it’s clear that there’s a shortage in other parts—with no beds at all between Carmarthen and Bangor—then perhaps you would like to consider allocating those beds in a more appropriate manner for the benefit of the nation as a whole. You will be aware that Theresa May has today announced that she will be bringing forward legislation to ban the use of police cells for children and young people who have mental health problems. I wonder whether she has discussed that with you, and I wonder whether you are of the opinion that that perhaps doesn’t go far enough, and that we now need to introduce legislation that will prohibit the use of police cells for adult, as well as for children and young people.
 
13:46
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, let me start by agreeing with what Elin Jones said about the need to make sure that we have the beds in the right place, and if we've got an oversupply in some places, we need to make sure that we have the supply where they are needed. I'm aware of the discussions that have gone on with the Home Office. It's absolutely our position in Wales that we would not want any young person to be held in a police cell where there is a mental health component of that young person's behaviour. We work very closely with police services here in Wales, and the numbers in Wales are very low, but need to be eliminated. It's equally true that we wouldn't want any adult whose behaviour has been affected by a mental health condition to end up in a police cell when they could be held elsewhere. A great deal of work has gone on in Wales, and a great deal of success has been achieved, working between the health service and our police services to reduce those numbers.
Wel, gadewch i mi ddechrau drwy gytuno â’r hyn a ddywedodd Elin Jones am yr angen i sicrhau bod y gwelyau yn y lle cywir, ac os oes gennym orgyflenwad mewn rhai mannau, mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr fod gennym gyflenwad ohonynt lle y mae eu hangen. Rwy’n ymwybodol o’r trafodaethau a fu gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref. Ein safbwynt pendant ni yma yng Nghymru yw na fyddem eisiau i unrhyw berson ifanc gael ei gadw mewn cell heddlu os yw ei ymddygiad yn cynnwys ystyriaethau iechyd meddwl. Rydym yn gweithio’n agos iawn gyda’r gwasanaethau heddlu yma yng Nghymru, ac mae’r niferoedd yng Nghymru’n isel iawn, ond mae angen eu dileu. Mae’r un mor wir na fyddem eisiau i oedolyn â chyflwr iechyd meddwl sy’n effeithio ar ei ymddygiad gael ei gadw mewn cell heddlu os oes modd eu cadw mewn man arall. Mae llawer iawn o waith wedi’i wneud yng Nghymru, a chafwyd cryn dipyn o lwyddiant, yn gweithio rhwng y gwasanaeth iechyd a’r gwasanaethau heddlu i leihau’r niferoedd hynny.
 
13:47
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
We now move to the Welsh Conservatives’ spokesperson, Darren Millar.
Symudwn yn awr at lefarydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, Darren Millar.
 
13:48
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
Diolch i chi, Lywydd.
 
Minister, this week saw the publication of the latest emergency department performance figures, which showed that over 2,000 patients spent more than 12 hours in emergency departments across Wales, compared with fewer than 50 over the same period in England, and that the Welsh Government's NHS continues to miss its targets, as it has done since 2009, against the four-hour performance target for emergency departments. What is your Government doing to address these problems in the NHS so that it meets the performance targets that you set?
Weinidog, yr wythnos hon cafodd y ffigurau diweddaraf ar berfformiad adrannau achosion brys eu cyhoeddi, a oedd yn dangos bod dros 2,000 o gleifion wedi treulio mwy na 12 awr mewn adrannau achosion brys ledled Cymru, o’i gymharu â llai na 50 dros yr un cyfnod yn Lloegr, a bod GIG Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i fethu ei dargedau, fel y mae wedi ei wneud ers 2009, yn erbyn y targed perfformiad pedair awr ar gyfer achosion brys. Beth y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn yn y GIG er mwyn iddo gyrraedd y targedau perfformiad a osodwyd gennych?
 
13:48
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, as the Member often conveniently forgets to mention, performance in the Welsh NHS, in those figures, has shown an improvement over the previous month, and that month was an improvement over the month before that. More than eight out of 10 people in the Welsh NHS are seen, treated and discharged within four hours, and, in the Welsh NHS, that is actually what happens, rather than a beat-the-clock system as they have across the border, where people are artificially admitted to a hospital at three hours and 58 minutes in order to appear to meet the target.
Wel, fel y mae’r Aelod yn aml yn anghofio ei grybwyll, yn gyfleus iawn, mae perfformiad y GIG yng Nghymru, yn y ffigurau hynny, wedi dangos gwelliant o gymharu â’r mis blaenorol, ac roedd y mis hwnnw’n well na’r mis cyn hynny. Mae mwy nag wyth o bob 10 o bobl yn y GIG yng Nghymru yn cael eu gweld, eu trin a’u rhyddhau o fewn pedair awr, ac yn y GIG yng Nghymru, dyna sy’n digwydd go iawn, yn hytrach na system ‘curo’r cloc’ fel sydd ganddynt ar draws y ffin, lle y caiff pobl eu derbyn i’r ysbyty yn artiffisial ar ôl tair awr a 58 munud er mwyn rhoi’r argraff eu bod yn cyrraedd y targed.
 
Where I do agree with Darren Millar is that the number of people waiting more than 12 hours is higher than it ought to be. Some people are properly retained in an emergency department while another test is being carried out, or while a period of observation is concluded, so that people can be discharged home, but that does not explain the whole of that number by any means, and I expect health boards, as part of the improving pattern, to bear down on that number over the coming months.
Yr hyn rwy’n cytuno â Darren Millar yn ei gylch yw bod nifer y bobl sy’n aros mwy na 12 awr yn uwch nag y dylai fod. Mae rhai pobl yn cael eu cadw yn briodol mewn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys tra bo prawf arall yn cael ei gynnal, neu tra bo cyfnod o arsylwi yn dod i ben, er mwyn gallu rhyddhau pobl i fynd adref, ond nid yw hynny’n egluro’r nifer cyfan mewn unrhyw fodd, ac rwy’n disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd, fel rhan o’r patrwm o welliant, fwrw iddi i leihau’r nifer dros y misoedd nesaf.
 
13:49
You say that you expect health boards to improve performance, but, of course, the reality is that this figure has doubled in the past 12 months, when compared with April last year. So, you talk about performance improvements over the past month, but forget that the trend over the 12 months has been one of significant deterioration. I ask you again, Minister, rather than just communicating with health boards and telling them that you’re not very pleased with their performance, what specific action are you taking to improve this performance, so that patients can benefit from timely access to treatment and be discharged from emergency departments in accordance with the targets that you may well try to wish away but that your Government actually sets?
Rydych yn dweud eich bod yn disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd wella’u perfformiad, ond wrth gwrs, y gwir amdani yw bod y ffigur wedi dyblu yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf, o’i gymharu â mis Ebrill y llynedd. Felly, rydych yn siarad am y gwelliannau perfformiad dros y mis diwethaf, ond yn anghofio bod y duedd dros y 12 mis wedi dangos dirywiad sylweddol. Rwy’n gofyn i chi eto, Weinidog, yn hytrach na chyfathrebu â byrddau iechyd a dweud wrthynt nad ydych yn fodlon iawn ar eu perfformiad, pa gamau penodol rydych yn eu rhoi ar waith i wella’r perfformiad hwn, er mwyn i gleifion allu elwa ar driniaeth amserol a chael eu rhyddhau o’r adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn unol â’r targedau y gallech yn hawdd geisio eu hanwybyddu, ond a osodwyd, mewn gwirionedd, gan eich Llywodraeth chi?
 
13:50
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, the Welsh Government takes a whole series of actions, of course, in order to assist health boards in the discharge of their responsibilities. We’ve appointed a national clinical lead for unscheduled care. The director general of the national health service here in Wales now chairs the unscheduled care board. We make sure that health boards learn from one another so that, where there are successes in Wales—of which there are many and of which the opposition party spokesperson never troubles himself to mention—those successes are learned across Wales. That’s the role that Government properly plays in this.
Wel, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyfres gyfan o gamau gweithredu, wrth gwrs, er mwyn cynorthwyo byrddau iechyd i gyflawni eu cyfrifoldebau. Rydym wedi penodi arweinydd clinigol cenedlaethol ar gyfer gofal heb ei drefnu. Mae cyfarwyddwr cyffredinol y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru bellach yn cadeirio’r bwrdd gofal heb ei drefnu. Rydym yn gwneud yn siŵr fod byrddau iechyd yn dysgu gwersi gan ei gilydd er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn dysgu o’r llwyddiannau hynny ledled Cymru—ac mae llawer ohonynt er nad yw llefarydd yr wrthblaid yn trafferthu sôn amdanynt. Dyna’r rhan briodol y mae Llywodraeth yn ei chwarae yn hyn.
 
13:50
Quite clearly, the action taken to date has been insufficient to deliver the step change in improvement that we need to see in emergency department performance. Isn’t the honest truth, Minister, that you need to admit, as have other Members of the governing party, that you’ve lost the argument on the NHS, and that you need to pull your socks up, pull your finger out and deliver the improvements that the patients of Wales need to see—not just in terms of emergency department performance, but in terms of performance across the board?
Yn amlwg, mae’r camau a roddwyd ar waith hyd yn hyn wedi bod yn annigonol i gyflawni’r newid sylweddol o ran y gwelliannau rydym angen eu gweld ym mherfformiad adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Onid y gwir plaen, Weinidog, yw bod angen i chi gyfaddef, fel y mae Aelodau eraill y blaid lywodraethol wedi gwneud, eich bod wedi colli’r ddadl ar y GIG, a bod angen i chi dorchi eich llewys, tynnu eich bys allan a chyflawni’r gwelliannau y mae cleifion Cymru angen eu gweld—nid yn unig o ran perfformiad adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, ond o ran y perfformiad yn gyffredinol?
 
13:51
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Llywydd, it is disappointing that, once again, the contribution of Darren Millar is a triumph of prejudice over analysis. The idle bile that is his stock in trade when it comes to the NHS in Wales is noticed every single day by people who work in it and use it. His party have not a single good word to say about the NHS in Wales, and their consistent attempts to denigrate and run down what people achieve every day in Wales is well understood by people who take a proper interest in these matters.
Lywydd, mae’n siomedig fod cyfraniad Darren Millar, unwaith eto, yn gadael i ragfarn drechu dadansoddiad. Mae’r bustl gwag sydd mor nodweddiadol ohono wrth drafod y GIG yng Nghymru i’w weld bob dydd gan y bobl sy’n gweithio yn y GIG ac yn ei ddefnyddio. Nid oes gan ei blaid yr un gair da i’w ddweud am y GIG yng Nghymru, ac mae’r bobl sydd â diddordeb priodol yn y materion hyn yn ymwybodol iawn o’u hymdrechion cyson i fychanu a lladd ar yr hyn y mae pobl yn ei gyflawni bob dydd yng Nghymru.
 
13:52
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
We now move to the Welsh Liberal Democrats’ spokesperson—[Interruption.] Kirsty Williams. Not Darren Millar, Kirsty Williams.
Symudwn yn awr at lefarydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru—[Torri ar draws.] Kirsty Williams. Nid Darren Millar, Kirsty Williams.
 
13:52
Kirsty WilliamsBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru / The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, on Monday, your Government department issued a press release stating that you were investing £2 million to develop specific services to better diagnose and support young people with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism spectrum disorder. Could you inform me whether that £2 million is new money or whether that £2 million had already been committed for those purposes?
Diolch i chi, Lywydd. Weinidog, ddydd Llun cyhoeddodd eich adran o’r Llywodraeth ddatganiad i’r wasg yn nodi eich bod yn buddsoddi £2 filiwn i ddatblygu gwasanaethau penodol i wella’r broses o wneud diagnosis a chynorthwyo pobl ifanc sydd ag anhwylder diffyg canolbwyntio a gorfywiogrwydd ac anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig. A wnewch chi fy hysbysu a yw’r £2 filiwn yn arian newydd neu ai £2 filiwn sydd eisoes wedi ei ymrwymo at y dibenion hynny yw hwn?
 
13:52
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Llywydd, I’m very happy to confirm to the Member that that is entirely new money.
Lywydd, rwy’n hapus iawn i gadarnhau i’r Aelod fod hwnnw’n arian hollol newydd.
 
13:52
Kirsty WilliamsBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you very much, Minister. I’m sure that clarification will be good news to those people concerned with this area of policy. You’ll be aware that there are continuing concerns about families of young people getting a diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. Your interim delivery action plan, also published on Monday, said that your No. 1 action in the following year was to secure improvements in ASD diagnosis services for children, young people and adults. But actually, all that does, in the action column, is set up yet another group to talk about how you’re going to improve access to diagnostic services. Could you inform Members what your expectations are of how long people should wait for a diagnosis, and when your Government will be in a position to move beyond setting up a group and actually ensure that people get a diagnosis in a timely fashion?
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog. Rwy’n siŵr y bydd yr eglurhad hwnnw’n newyddion da i’r bobl sy’n ymwneud â’r maes polisi hwn. Fe wyddoch fod pryderon parhaus ynghylch teuluoedd pobl ifanc sy’n cael diagnosis o anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig. Roedd eich cynllun cyflawni interim, a gyhoeddwyd ddydd Llun hefyd, yn dweud mai eich blaenoriaeth gyntaf ar gyfer gweithredu yn y flwyddyn ddilynol oedd sicrhau gwelliannau mewn gwasanaethau diagnostig ar gyfer anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig i blant, pobl ifanc ac oedolion. Ond mewn gwirionedd, y cyfan y mae hynny’n ei wneud, yn y golofn weithredu, yw sefydlu grŵp arall i siarad ynglŷn â sut rydych yn mynd i wella mynediad at wasanaethau diagnostig. A wnewch chi hysbysu’r Aelodau beth yw eich disgwyliadau ynglŷn â pha mor hir y dylai pobl aros am ddiagnosis, a rhoi gwybod pa bryd y bydd eich Llywodraeth mewn sefyllfa i symud y tu hwnt i sefydlu grŵp a sicrhau, mewn gwirionedd, fod pobl yn cael diagnosis mewn modd amserol?
 
13:53
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Llywydd, we are well beyond simply setting up a group. That would not be a fair reflection of where the work that goes on in the sector has already got to. Kirsty Williams will be aware that the expert group that was established to refresh the autism strategy advised me earlier this year that they wanted more time to conclude some quite tricky discussions that they need to have in this quite difficult area, but that there were a series of immediate actions that we could take. That’s why we published an interim, one-year strategy earlier this week. I won’t do what she suggests and arbitrarily identify a period of waiting. For young people in particular, this is a developmental condition. It is important sometimes to wait a little longer to make sure that the right diagnosis is being made of a child, for example, who is two or three years old, rather than—and I do understand why parents are anxious for a diagnosis—to rush to provide a label that may turn out later on not to be correct, and will have had an adverse effect on that young person’s treatment and health.
Lywydd, rydym ymhell y tu hwnt i sefydlu grŵp. Ni fyddai hynny’n adlewyrchiad teg o’r gwaith a gyflawnwyd yn y sector eisoes. Bydd Kirsty Williams yn ymwybodol fod y grŵp arbenigol a sefydlwyd i adnewyddu’r strategaeth awtistiaeth wedi dweud wrthyf yn gynharach eleni eu bod eisiau mwy o amser i gwblhau rhai trafodaethau anodd sy’n rhaid eu cael yn y maes cymhleth hwn, ond bod cyfres o gamau gweithredu y gallem eu cymryd ar unwaith. Dyna pam y cyhoeddwyd strategaeth un flwyddyn interim gennym yn gynharach yr wythnos hon. Ni fyddaf yn gwneud yr hyn y mae’n awgrymu a nodi cyfnod aros ar fympwy. Mewn pobl ifanc yn arbennig, mae hwn yn gyflwr datblygiadol. Mae’n bwysig aros ychydig yn hwy weithiau i wneud yn siŵr fod y diagnosis cywir yn cael ei roi ar gyfer plentyn, er enghraifft, sy’n ddwy neu’n dair oed, yn hytrach na rhuthro—ac rwy’n deall pam y mae rhieni’n awyddus i gael diagnosis—i roi label a allai gael ei brofi’n anghywir yn nes ymlaen, gan arwain at effaith niweidiol ar iechyd a thriniaeth y person ifanc dan sylw.
 
13:55
Kirsty WilliamsBywgraffiadBiography
Presiding Officer, I have the Government’s document right here before me, and the only mention it makes of securing better diagnostic services is action 1, and the responsibility, it says, is the Welsh Government’s, who will establish a diagnostic task and finish group. That’s exactly what the Government document says, and it does not go beyond that.
Lywydd, mae gennyf ddogfen y Llywodraeth yma o fy mlaen, a daw’r unig sylw y mae’n ei roi i sicrhau gwasanaethau diagnostig gwell yng ngham gweithredu 1, a dywed ei fod yn gyfrifoldeb i Lywodraeth Cymru, a fydd yn sefydlu grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar y broses ddiagnostig. Dyna’n union y mae dogfen y Llywodraeth yn ei ddweud, ac nid yw’n mynd y tu hwnt i hynny.
 
Minister, you’ll be aware that, until recently, resources to develop ASD infrastructure in local authorities were ring-fenced. The Government has taken the decision to move that money into the revenue support grant. What steps will your Government be taking to ensure that local authorities do indeed use those resources to develop ASD infrastructure within their local authorities? Is it your intention that all local authorities should continue to provide a liaison committee, so that those people who have a concern about ASD—patients, their carers—have an opportunity to work alongside those who are commissioning and providing services?
Weinidog, tan yn ddiweddar, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod adnoddau ar gyfer datblygu seilwaith anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig mewn awdurdodau lleol wedi cael eu neilltuo. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi penderfynu symud yr arian i mewn i’r grant cynnal refeniw. Pa gamau y bydd eich Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn defnyddio’r adnoddau hynny i ddatblygu seilwaith anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig yn eu hawdurdodau lleol? Ai eich bwriad yw sicrhau y dylai pob awdurdod lleol barhau i ddarparu pwyllgor cyswllt, er mwyn rhoi cyfle i’r bobl sy’n pryderu ynghylch anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig—cleifion, eu gofalwyr—i weithio ochr yn ochr â’r rhai sy’n comisiynu ac yn darparu gwasanaethau?
 
13:56
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Llywydd, the leader of the Liberal Democrats began by pointing to the £2 million that was also announced on Monday for additional services for young people with ADHD. That’s why I’m perfectly confident in saying to her that our actions on diagnosis and on waiting times go far beyond simply a working group. There will be extra services provided as a result of that money, and those services will be very relevant to many young people who are on the autistic spectrum.
Lywydd, dechreuodd arweinydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol drwy gyfeirio at y £2 filiwn a gafodd ei gyhoeddi ddydd Llun ar gyfer gwasanaethau ychwanegol i bobl ifanc sydd ag anhwylder diffyg canolbwyntio a gorfywiogrwydd. Dyna pam rwy’n berffaith hyderus yn dweud wrthi fod ein camau gweithredu ar ddiagnosis ac amseroedd aros yn mynd ymhell y tu hwnt i weithgor. Bydd gwasanaethau ychwanegol yn cael eu darparu o ganlyniad i’r arian hwnnw, a bydd y gwasanaethau hynny’n berthnasol iawn i lawer o bobl ifanc sydd ar y sbectrwm awtistig.
 
In relation to the money that went into the RSG, that is the agreement that we have with local authorities. I wrote specifically to them at the time, making it clear that Welsh Government would look very carefully at the way that that money is spent. I understand the anxieties of families that the money may disappear into other uses. It’s for local authorities to demonstrate to them and to Welsh Government that they use that money in the way that they say transferring it to the RSG allows them—that’s to say, with more flexibility and an ability to get more out of the money that we invest. The £660,000 extra that I also announced on Monday will go directly to these services, and we will certainly expect local authorities to maintain the machinery they have for communicating what they do to their local populations.
Mewn perthynas â’r arian a aeth i mewn i’r grant cynnal refeniw, dyna’r cytundeb sydd gennym ag awdurdodau lleol. Ysgrifennais atynt yn benodol ar y pryd i’w gwneud yn glir y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn edrych yn ofalus iawn ar y ffordd y byddai’r arian hwnnw’n cael ei wario. Rwy’n deall pryderon teuluoedd y gallai’r arian ddiflannu ar bethau eraill. Mater i’r awdurdodau lleol yw dangos iddynt hwy ac i Lywodraeth Cymru eu bod yn defnyddio’r arian hwnnw yn y ffordd y maent yn dweud y mae ei drosglwyddo i’r Grant Cynnal Refeniw yn caniatáu iddynt ei wneud—hynny yw, gyda mwy o hyblygrwydd a’r gallu i gael mwy allan o’r arian rydym yn ei fuddsoddi. Mae’r £660,000 ychwanegol a gyhoeddais ddydd Llun hefyd yn mynd yn uniongyrchol tuag at y gwasanaethau hyn, a byddwn yn sicr yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol gynnal y systemau sydd ganddynt ar gyfer cyfathrebu’r hyn y maent yn ei wneud i’w poblogaethau lleol.
 
13:57
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
We now move back to questions on the paper, and question 3 is Simon Thomas’s.
Symudwn yn ôl yn awr at y cwestiynau ar y papur, a daw cwestiwn 3 gan Simon Thomas.
 
Cronfa Gofal Canolraddol (y Canolbarth a’r Gorllewin)
The Intermediate Care Fund (Mid and West Wales)
 
13:57
3. Pa asesiad y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’i wneud o berfformiad y gronfa gofal canolraddol yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru? OAQ(4)0598(HSS)
3. What assessment has the Minister made of the performance of the intermediate care fund in Mid and West Wales? OAQ(4)0598(HSS)
 
13:57
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae cyrff statudol a’r trydydd sector yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru yn nodi canlyniadau cadarnhaol iawn i bobl leol o’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir trwy gronfa gofal canolraddol.
Thank you for the question. Statutory bodies and the third sector in mid and west Wales have noted the very positive outcomes for local people of the services provided by the intermediate care fund.
 
13:58
Diolch, Weinidog, ac yn wir, mae yna ganlyniadau addawol—rwyf wedi gweld tystiolaeth ar gyfer rhai ohonyn nhw: tystiolaeth bod pobl yn peidio â chael eu cludo i’r ysbyty, er enghraifft, a thystiolaeth o addasu cartrefi i leddfu’r angen am ofal tymor hir, a 12 claf penodol wedi gweld gwelliant yn eu hamodau byw oherwydd y gronfa honno. I fi, mae’r gronfa yn dangos budd o gydweithio agos, os nad uno, rhwng gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ac iechyd, ond y cwestiwn sy’n cael ei godi, yn enwedig gan y mudiadau gwirfoddol yn y canolbarth ar hyn o bryd, yw sut mae modd i’r gronfa yma, ac ysbryd y gronfa, barhau, a sut mae modd i fudiadau gwirfoddol wybod am y ffordd y maen nhw’n gallu ymwneud â’r gronfa ac ymwneud â rhagor o gynlluniau fel hyn?
Thank you, Minister, and indeed, there are promising outcomes—I have seen evidence of some of them: evidence of people not being taken to hospital, for example, and evidence of home adaptations to alleviate the need for long-term care, as well as 12 specific patients who have seen an improvement in their living conditions as a result of that fund. For me, the fund shows the benefits of close collaboration, if not mergers, between social services and health, but the question being raised, particularly by voluntary organisations in mid Wales at the moment, is how can this fund, and the spirit of it, be maintained, and how can voluntary organisations find out about how they can become engaged with the fund and engaged with more programmes such as this?
 
13:58
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Wel, diolch yn fawr i Simon Thomas am beth mae e wedi’i ddweud am lwyddiant y gronfa ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi buddsoddi £20 miliwn yn fwy yn y flwyddyn ariannol yma i gadw i fynd ymlaen gyda gwaith y gronfa, ac mae’n hollol bwysig i fi fod yn glir am beth mae’r trydydd sector yn gallu ei roi i mewn gyda’r bobl yn yr awdurdodau lleol a’r byrddau iechyd. Mae enghreifftiau ledled Cymru o ble y maen nhw wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth, ac rwy’n glir am beth yr wyf i wedi’i ddweud wrth bobl gyda’r cyfrifoldebau am y gronfa nawr: mae’n bwysig bwrw ymlaen â’r ffordd yna o weithio.
Well, I thank Simon Thomas for what he has said about the success of the fund at this time. The Government has invested an additional £20 million in this financial year to carry on with the work of the fund, and it is very important for me to be clear about what the third sector can contribute with the staff from the local authorities and the health boards. There are examples throughout Wales of where they’ve been able to make a difference, and I’m clear about what I have told the people with responsibility for the fund now: it is important to carry on with that way of working.
 
13:59
Russell GeorgeBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you for your earlier answers, Minister. Can I ask how is the intermediate care fund operating in a cross-border context, with situations like that in my own constituency, where constituents are accessing care across the border from services in England?
Diolch i chi am eich atebion yn gynharach, Weinidog. A gaf fi ofyn sut y mae’r gronfa gofal canolraddol yn gweithredu mewn cyd-destun trawsffiniol, gyda sefyllfaoedd fel a geir yn fy etholaeth i, lle y mae etholwyr yn cael gofal ar draws y ffin gan wasanaethau yn Lloegr?
 
14:00
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Thanks, Russell George, for that. Of course, the intermediate care fund is only available for services in Wales, but, because they are very often focused around getting people out of hospital more quickly, or preventing flow into hospital, then they do have a direct relationship with some services that are provided across our border. I’ve been fortunate enough myself to visit a number of intermediate care fund projects, including those provided by local health boards and authorities that operate along the border, and I know that, in the way that I said earlier to Nick Ramsay, they are keen to put that money and those services to work in a way that is focused entirely on the needs of the patient rather than on any artificial administrative boundaries that may get in the way of providing that care.
Diolch, Russell George. Wrth gwrs, nid yw’r gronfa gofal canolraddol ond ar gael ar gyfer gwasanaethau yng Nghymru, ond oherwydd eu bod yn canolbwyntio’n aml ar gael pobl allan o’r ysbyty’n gynt, neu atal llif i mewn i’r ysbyty, mae perthynas uniongyrchol rhyngddynt a rhai gwasanaethau sy’n cael eu darparu ar draws ein ffin. Bûm yn ddigon ffodus i ymweld â nifer o brosiectau cronfa gofal canolraddol, gan gynnwys y rhai a ddarperir gan fyrddau iechyd lleol ac awdurdodau sy’n gweithredu ar hyd y ffin, ac rwy’n gwybod, yn y ffordd a ddywedais yn gynharach wrth Nick Ramsay, eu bod yn awyddus i roi’r arian hwnnw a’r gwasanaethau hynny ar waith mewn ffordd sy’n canolbwyntio’n gyfan gwbl ar anghenion y claf yn hytrach nag ar unrhyw ffiniau gweinyddol artiffisial a allai amharu ar y modd y caiff y gofal hwnnw ei ddarparu.
 
14:01
Weinidog, rwy’n falch iawn o weld y bydd y gronfa ofal canolraddol yn parhau. A allech ddweud wrthym sut y gallem sicrhau bod enghreifftiau unigol o arfer da yn un rhan o Gymru yn cael eu rhannu ac yn dod yn norm arferol yng ngweddill ein gwlad?
Minister, I’m extremely pleased to see that the intermediate care fund is to continue. Can you tell us how we can ensure that individual examples of good practice in one part of Wales can be shared and become the norm in the rest of the country?
 
14:01
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Diolch yn fawr i Gwenda Thomas am y cwestiwn. Wrth gwrs, mae hi, rwy’n gwybod, wedi gweld nifer o enghreifftiau o’r gronfa a’i gwaith ledled Cymru nawr. Dywedais i wrth Simon Thomas bod £20 miliwn yn y gyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol yma. Beth rwyf wedi ei wneud yw cadw £2.5 miliwn yn ôl achos fy mod yn awyddus i hybu beth mae Gwenda Thomas wedi’i ddweud. Lle rydym ni’n gwybod bod enghraifft da—er enghraifft, yn Hywel Dda—rwy’n awyddus i fod yn glir gyda’r byrddau iechyd eraill a’r awdurdodau lleol eraill hefyd fy mod i eisiau eu gweld nhw’n gwneud yr un peth. Dyna pam rwyf wedi tynnu £2.5 miliwn yn ôl i helpu ariannu’r byrddau iechyd eraill i wneud beth sydd wedi—ble mae tystiolaeth ar gael o bethau sy’n gweithio yng Nghymru.
I thank Gwenda Thomas very much for that question. Of course, I know that she has seen a number of examples of the fund at work and in action across the whole of Wales. I told Simon Thomas that there’s £20 million in the budget for this current financial year. What I’ve done is kept back £2.5 million because I am eager to promote Gwenda Thomas’s suggestion. Where we know that there is a good example—for example, in Hywel Dda—then I am very eager to be clear with other health boards and local authorities that I want to see them do the same thing. That is why I have reserved £2.5 million to help to fund other health boards to do what has—where there is evidence of things that work in Wales.
 
14:02
The Bro Preseli extra healthcare scheme in Crymych is one scheme benefitting from the fund, and it does help to ensure that people don’t stay in hospital any longer than they need to. Integration and partnership is of course key to all of this, and it’s already been mentioned. So, could you outline, Minister, just how the fund is helping the third sector and other partners to support the work of the statutory service?
Mae cynllun gofal iechyd ychwanegol Bro Preseli yng Nghrymych yn un cynllun sy’n elwa o’r gronfa, ac mae’n helpu i sicrhau nad yw pobl yn aros yn yr ysbyty yn hwy nag y bo angen. Mae integreiddio a phartneriaeth yn allweddol i hyn oll wrth gwrs, ac mae eisoes wedi cael ei grybwyll. Felly, Weinidog, a allech chi amlinellu yn union sut y mae’r gronfa yn helpu’r trydydd sector a phartneriaid eraill i gefnogi gwaith y gwasanaeth statudol?
 
14:02
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I thank Joyce Watson for that. I have myself visited the Bro Preseli extra-care facility in Pembrokeshire, and it’s an absolutely outstanding example of what can be achieved by different public services working together. It draws extensively on the work of the third sector in its immediate locality to make sure that those people who are living in that extra-care facility are as well-connected to their local community as they can be. More broadly, in Pembrokeshire, the Member will be aware we have PIVOT, the Pembrokeshire intermediate voluntary organisations team, which is a project funded by the intermediate care fund that is entirely to do with bringing third sector organisations together to promote rehabilitation, re-ablement and independent living.
Hoffwn ddiolch i Joyce Watson am hynny. Rwyf wedi ymweld â chyfleuster gofal ychwanegol Bro Preseli yn Sir Benfro, ac mae’n enghraifft hollol ragorol o’r hyn y gellir ei gyflawni pan fo gwahanol wasanaethau cyhoeddus yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd. Mae’n defnyddio gwaith y trydydd sector yn ei ardal leol i wneud yn siŵr fod y bobl sy’n byw yn y cyfleuster gofal ychwanegol wedi’u cysylltu gystal ag y bo modd â’u cymuned leol. Yn fwy cyffredinol, yn Sir Benfro, bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol fod gennym dîm sefydliadau gwirfoddol canolraddol Sir Benfro, sef prosiect sy’n cael ei ariannu gan y gronfa gofal canolraddol ac sy’n ymwneud yn llwyr â dod â sefydliadau trydydd sector at ei gilydd i hyrwyddo adsefydlu, ail-alluogi a byw’n annibynnol.
 
Lleihau Nifer y Bobl Ifanc sy'n Dechrau Ysmygu
Reducing the Uptake of Smoking Among Young People
 
14:03
4. Pa gynnydd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o ran lleihau nifer y bobl ifanc sy'n dechrau ysmygu? OAQ(4)0597(HSS)
4. What progress has the Welsh Government made in reducing the uptake of smoking among young people? OAQ(4)0597(HSS)
 
14:03
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
I thank the Member for the question. We are implementing a range of measures to discourage young people from taking up smoking. Our health behaviour in school-aged children survey shows the proportion of 15 to 16-year-olds who have tried smoking has at least halved between 2002 and 2014.
Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Rydym yn gweithredu amryw o fesurau i atal pobl ifanc rhag dechrau ysmygu. Mae ein harolwg ar ymddygiad iechyd plant ysgol yn dangos bod cyfran y plant 15 i 16 mlwydd oed sydd wedi rhoi cynnig ar ysmygu wedi haneru fan lleiaf rhwng 2002 a 2014.
 
14:04
I thank the Deputy Minister for that answer. Last week I hosted Action on Smoking and Health Cymru here in the Senedd, and I know that the Deputy Minister was actually there, and spoke, so he understands the excellent project that they were sponsoring, the Filter project, which tackles smoking amongst young people and engages with young people on the need to not take it up in the first instance and not to succumb to peer pressure. What’s the Welsh Government doing to support projects like that, to ensure that, as the years go by and I get a lot older, the next generation coming through is going to be healthier because there are fewer of them actually smoking?
Diolch i’r Dirprwy Weinidog am ei ateb. Yr wythnos diwethaf cynhaliais ddigwyddiad Gweithredu ar Ysmygu ac Iechyd Cymru yma yn y Senedd, a gwn fod y Dirprwy Weinidog yno, a’i fod wedi siarad, felly mae’n amlwg ei fod yn deall y prosiect rhagorol roeddent yn ei noddi, prosiect Filter, sy’n mynd i’r afael ag ysmygu ymhlith pobl ifanc ac yn ymgysylltu â phobl ifanc ar yr angen i beidio â dechrau ysmygu yn y lle cyntaf ac i beidio ag ildio i bwysau gan gyfoedion. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gefnogi prosiectau fel hwn, er mwyn sicrhau, wrth i’r blynyddoedd fynd heibio ac wrth i mi fynd yn llawer hŷn, y bydd y genhedlaeth nesaf yn iachach oherwydd bod llai ohonynt yn ysmygu?
 
14:04
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
I thank the Member for the question. I did indeed, as you know, attend the evening event here with ASH Wales looking at their Filter project, and I’ve met ASH Wales and I’ve discussed the project with them on a couple of occasions, and I recently met them to talk about the future of their project. What I’m really clear about is seeing that they look and sound like good ideas, where they’ve got a track record of engaging with people.
Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Yn wir, fel y gwyddoch, mynychais y digwyddiad gyda’r nos yma gydag ASH Cymru, a edrychai ar eu prosiect Filter, ac rwyf wedi cwrdd ag ASH Cymru ac wedi trafod y prosiect gyda hwy ar un neu ddau o achlysuron. Cefais gyfarfod â hwy’n ddiweddar i drafod dyfodol eu prosiect. Yr hyn rwy’n glir yn ei gylch yw gweld eu bod yn edrych ac yn swnio fel syniadau da, ac mae ganddynt hanes o ymgysylltu â phobl.
 
I’m really interested and the Government will be interested in the evidence of what works. If they can demonstrate the project works and is effective, we’ll be interested in seeing how that’s further rolled out. I’ve encouraged them to have a conversation with Public Health Wales about how they can look to see if their model has the evidence to support it and they can work with Public Health Wales to see if that is something that could be rolled out on a wider basis. I look forward to hearing the outcome of those discussions.
Mae gennyf ddiddordeb gwirioneddol a bydd y Llywodraeth â diddordeb yn y dystiolaeth ynghylch yr hyn sy’n gweithio. Os gallant ddangos bod y prosiect yn gweithio a’i fod yn effeithiol, bydd gennym ddiddordeb mewn gweld sut y caiff hynny ei gyflwyno ymhellach. Rwyf wedi eu hannog i gael sgwrs gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru ynglŷn â sut y gallant edrych i weld a oes tystiolaeth i gefnogi eu model a gallant weithio gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru i weld a yw hynny’n rhywbeth y gellid ei gyflwyno ar sail ehangach. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed canlyniad y trafodaethau hynny.
 
14:05
Mohammad AsgharBywgraffiadBiography
Deputy Minister, according to ASH, almost 90 per cent of regular cigarette smoking begins at the age of 18. What discussions has the Deputy Minister had with the Minister of education about promoting effective youth smoking prevention programmes in schools to reduce the uptake of smoking among young people in Wales?
Ddirprwy Weinidog, yn ôl ASH, mae bron i 90 y cant o’r rhai sy’n ysmygu sigaréts yn rheolaidd yn dechrau yn 18 oed. Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi’u cael gyda’r Gweinidog Addysg ynglŷn â hyrwyddo rhaglenni effeithiol ar atal ysmygu ymhlith pobl ifanc mewn ysgolion i leihau nifer y bobl sy’n dechrau ysmygu ymhlith pobl ifanc yng Nghymru?
 
14:05
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
I thank the Member for the question. We undertake a range of activity with colleagues in education to run programmes in schools. For example, the ASSIST programme, which Public Health Wales helped to run, is continuing to be rolled out in secondary schools and the evidence is that, where schools have the ASSIST programme, they are more effective at having a smaller number of people starting smoking at school age. In particular, it uses children themselves, pupils themselves, as peers to try and actually promote the non-smoking message. So, we undertake a range of work. We always, again, need to see is it effective. On this particular programme, there is good evidence that it is.
Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Rydym yn cyflawni ystod o weithgareddau gyda chydweithwyr ym maes addysg i ddarparu rhaglenni mewn ysgolion. Er enghraifft, mae’r rhaglen Treial Rhoi’r Gorau i Ysmygu mewn Ysgolion (ASSIST), rhaglen yr oedd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn arfer helpu i’w darparu, yn parhau i gael ei chyflwyno mewn ysgolion uwchradd ac mae’r dystiolaeth yn dangos bod ysgolion sy’n cyflwyno rhaglen ASSIST yn fwy effeithiol o ran bod llai o bobl ifanc oedran ysgol yn dechrau ysmygu yn yr ysgolion hynny. Yn benodol, mae’n defnyddio’r plant eu hunain, y disgyblion eu hunain, fel cyfoedion i geisio hyrwyddo neges dim ysmygu. Felly, rydym yn gwneud amrywiaeth o waith. Unwaith eto, mae angen i ni weld bob amser ei bod yn effeithiol. O ran y rhaglen benodol hon, mae tystiolaeth dda ei bod hi’n un effeithiol.
 
14:06
Lindsay WhittleBywgraffiadBiography
Deputy Minister, there is conflicting evidence on the use of e-cigarettes as a means of reducing the health risks of smoking other cigarettes. What is your opinion on the health impact of e-cigarettes on young people, some of whom I’ve seen as young as 11 years of age?
Ddirprwy Weinidog, ceir tystiolaeth sy’n gwrthdaro ar y defnydd o e-sigaréts fel modd o leihau peryglon ysmygu sigaréts eraill i iechyd. Beth yw eich barn ar effaith e-sigaréts ar iechyd pobl ifanc, a gwelais rai mor ifanc ag 11 oed?
 
14:06
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
The Member will know that the Welsh Government takes a cautionary approach to the use of e-cigarettes. There’s mixed evidence about the impact of e-cigarettes, but I think we’re right to take a cautionary approach. Part of our concern comes from the fact that they aren’t properly regulating what’s in e-cigarettes at present. But we do know that they’re marketed heavily at young people, the way they’re branded, the way they’re marketed and the flavours they use. There are over 7,000 flavours in e-cigarettes, and you can’t tell me that a bubble-gum flavoured e-cigarette isn’t really primarily aimed at young people. So, we’re right to be cautious. It will continue to guide our approach until there’s clear evidence there won’t be harm produced from using e-cigarettes.
Bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod bod Llywodraeth Cymru ag agwedd ragofalus tuag at ddefnyddio e-sigaréts. Ceir tystiolaeth gymysg ynghylch effaith e-sigaréts, ond rwy’n credu ein bod yn iawn i fabwysiadu agwedd ragofalus. Mae rhan o’n pryder yn deillio o’r ffaith nad ydynt yn rheoleiddio’r hyn sy’n cael ei gynnwys mewn e-sigaréts yn briodol ar hyn o bryd. Ond rydym yn gwybod eu bod yn eu marchnata’n drwm i bobl ifanc, o ran y modd y cânt eu brandio a’u marchnata a’r blasau a ddefnyddiant. Mae dros 7,000 o flasau e-sigaréts, ac ni allwch ddweud wrthyf nad yw e-sigarét blas gwm swigod wedi’i anelu’n bennaf tuag at bobl ifanc. Felly, rydym yn iawn i fod yn ofalus. Bydd hynny’n parhau i lywio ein dull o weithredu hyd nes y ceir tystiolaeth glir na fydd defnyddio e-sigaréts yn creu unrhyw niwed.
 
14:07
Eluned ParrottBywgraffiadBiography
Deputy Minister, I was very grateful for your comments on the Filter project, and I too attended that event. You’ll be aware that it is both a prevention and a cessation service for young people. Whilst the prevention statistics that you’ve mentioned are obviously very encouraging, in fact, over six months last year, only 34 people under the age of 18 were treated by Stop Smoking Wales, compared with more than 3,000 older adults. So, there is clearly a gap in the market for cessation services for younger people perhaps.
Ddirprwy Weinidog, roeddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn am eich sylwadau ar brosiect Filter, ac roeddwn innau hefyd yn bresennol yn y digwyddiad hwnnw. Fe wyddoch ei fod yn wasanaeth atal ysmygu a rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu ar gyfer pobl ifanc. Er bod yr ystadegau atal rydych wedi eu crybwyll yn amlwg yn galonogol iawn, mewn gwirionedd, dros chwe mis y llynedd, 34 o bobl yn unig o dan 18 oed a gafodd eu trin gan Dim Smygu Cymru, o’i gymharu â thros 3,000 o oedolion hŷn. Felly, mae’n amlwg efallai fod bwlch yn y farchnad ar gyfer gwasanaethau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu ar gyfer pobl iau.
 
Big Lottery funding ends for the Filter project at the end of October. I’m wondering if you can give me some assurance that you’ll work with ASH Wales to make sure that there isn’t a gap perhaps between their funding ending and the work that you’d like to do on looking at rolling out some of these elements beginning.
Mae cyllid y Loteri Fawr ar gyfer prosiect Filter yn dod i ben ddiwedd mis Hydref. Tybed a allwch roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd y byddwch yn gweithio gydag ASH Cymru i wneud yn siŵr nad oes bwlch, o bosibl, rhwng eu cyllid yn dod i ben a dechrau’r gwaith y byddech yn hoffi ei wneud o ran ystyried cyflwyno rhai o’r elfennau hyn.
 
14:08
Vaughan GethingBywgraffiadBiography
The two points that I’d reiterate are that we recognise there is a gap in an effective smoking cessation project for younger people, but, to see if Filter could fill that gap, there has to be the evidence they could do that effectively. Unless that evidence is provided to us, we can’t, in all honesty, fund the project. We wait to see a proper proposal coming forward. That’s why I’ve directed ASH Wales to go and have a conversation with Public Health Wales to try and look at what evidence exists. Again, as I said in answer to David Rees, I look forward to seeing what the outcome of that discussion is to see if there is real evidence that this is the effective intervention that we should be supporting.
Y ddau bwynt y byddwn yn eu hailadrodd yw ein bod yn cydnabod bod bwlch o ran prosiect rhoi’r gorau i smygu effeithiol i bobl iau, ond er mwyn gweld a allai Filter lenwi’r bwlch hwnnw, mae’n rhaid cael tystiolaeth sy’n profi y gallent wneud hynny’n effeithiol. Oni ddarperir y dystiolaeth honno i ni, a bod yn onest, ni allwn ariannu’r prosiect. Rydym yn aros i weld cynnig priodol yn cael ei gyflwyno. Dyna pam rwyf wedi cyfeirio ASH Cymru i gael sgwrs gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru i geisio edrych ar ba dystiolaeth sy’n bodoli. Unwaith eto, fel y dywedais wrth ateb David Rees, edrychaf ymlaen at weld beth fydd canlyniad y drafodaeth honno er mwyn gweld a oes tystiolaeth go iawn mai dyma’r ymyriad effeithiol y dylem fod yn ei gefnogi.
 
14:09
Deputy Minister, what assessment has the Welsh Government made of Cardiff University’s research that shows young children are experimenting with e-cigarettes?
Ddirprwy Weinidog, pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’i wneud o ymchwil Prifysgol Caerdydd sy’n dangos bod plant ifanc yn arbrofi gydag e-sigaréts?
 
14:09