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Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Y Fonesig Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Presiding Officer (Dame Rosemary Butler) in the Chair.
 
13:30
Cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Prynhawn da. Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn.
Good afternoon. I call the National Assembly for Wales to order.
 
Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans ym Mrycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed
Ambulance Services in Brecon and Radnorshire
 
13:30
Kirsty WilliamsBywgraffiadBiography
1. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am wasanaethau ambiwlans ym Mrycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed? OAQ(4)1507(FM)
1. Will the First Minister make a statement on ambulance services in Brecon and Radnorshire? OAQ(4)1507(FM)
 
13:30
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Yes. I am encouraged to note that the latest available ambulance response time figures show that category A performance in Powys was better in December 2013 than for the same period in 2012.
Gwnaf. Mae’n galonogol nodi bod y ffigurau diweddaraf sydd ar gael ar amseroedd ymateb ambiwlansys yn dangos bod perfformiad categori A ym Mhowys yn well yn Rhagfyr 2013 nag ar gyfer yr un cyfnod yn 2012.
 
13:30
Kirsty WilliamsBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru / The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats
First Minister, figures recently released by the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust showed that ambulances in Powys are answering almost one fifth of their calls in other local health board areas. That means that many of my constituents are potentially being left without proper ambulance cover. When I raised this issue with you last June, you said that you would investigate the matter. What did those investigations reveal?
Brif Weinidog, dangosodd ffigurau a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar gan Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru bod ambiwlansys ym Mhowys yn ateb bron i un o bob pump o’u galwadau mewn ardaloedd byrddau iechyd lleol eraill. Mae hynny’n golygu ei bod yn bosibl bod llawer o’m hetholwyr yn cael eu gadael heb wasanaeth ambiwlans priodol. Pan godais y mater hwn gyda chi fis Mehefin diwethaf, dywedasoch y byddech yn ymchwilio i’r mater. Beth a ddatgelwyd gan yr ymchwiliadau hynny?
 
13:31
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
There is no reason to suggest that there is a lack of cover in Powys and we see that because of the figures that I have just mentioned to the Member from December of last year. In terms of responses, including, of course, air ambulance responses, we know that people in Powys do get to hospital quickly when they need to, despite the rurality of the county. Of course, there will be some communities where ambulances do cross the LHB borders, if I can put it like that, or even the county boundaries, where that is necessary. However, that does not necessarily mean that there will be a lack of cover elsewhere in any other county.
Nid oes unrhyw reswm i awgrymu bod diffyg yn y gwasanaeth ym Mhowys ac rydym ni’n gweld hynny oherwydd y ffigurau yr wyf newydd eu crybwyll i’r Aelod o fis Rhagfyr y llynedd. O ran ymatebion, gan gynnwys, wrth gwrs, ymatebion ambiwlansys awyr, rydym yn gwybod bod pobl ym Mhowys yn cyrraedd yr ysbyty yn gyflym pan fo angen iddynt wneud hynny, er gwaethaf natur wledig y sir. Wrth gwrs, bydd rhai cymunedau lle mae ambiwlansys yn croesi ffiniau BILl, os gallaf ei roi felly, neu hyd yn oed y ffiniau sirol, pan fo hynny’n angenrheidiol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny o reidrwydd yn golygu y bydd diffyg gwasanaeth mewn mannau eraill mewn unrhyw sir arall.
 
13:32
First Minister, the problems in the ambulance service are not confined to Brecon and Radnorshire. In fact, what we have found is that there are problems across Wales, including in Bodelwyddan, where 13 ambulances were stacked up outside the hospital—
Brif Weinidog, nid yw’r problemau yn y gwasanaeth ambiwlans wedi eu cyfyngu i Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed. Mewn gwirionedd, yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi ei ganfod yw bod problemau ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys ym Modelwyddan, lle’r oedd 13 o ambiwlansys wedi’u pentyrru y tu allan i’r ysbyty—
 
13:32
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Darren Millar, I have cut your microphone off, because we are talking about Brecon and Radnorshire and not doing examples of other geographical areas.
Darren Millar, rwyf wedi diffodd eich meicroffon, gan ein bod yn siarad am Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed ac nid enghreifftiau o ardaloedd daearyddol eraill.
 
13:32
I am merely making the point that the ambulance service is under pressure.
Y cwbl rwy’n ei wneud yw gwneud y pwynt bod y gwasanaeth ambiwlans dan bwysau.
 
13:32
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Please move on with the question.
Symudwch ymlaen â’r cwestiwn os gwelwch yn dda.
 
13:32
That is as a result largely of the record-breaking cuts that your Government has imposed upon the Welsh national health service. What action are you taking to remedy that situation to ensure that our unscheduled care performance can improve and what lessons can you learn from looking across the border where the performance of the ambulance service is a darn sight better than here in Wales?
Mae hynny i raddau helaeth o ganlyniad i’r toriadau mwyaf erioed y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi eu gorfodi ar wasanaeth iechyd gwladol Cymru. Pa gamau ydych chi’n eu cymryd i ddatrys y sefyllfa honno er mwyn sicrhau y gall ein perfformiad o ran gofal heb ei drefnu wella a pha wersi y gallwch chi eu dysgu o edrych ar draws y ffin lle mae perfformiad y gwasanaeth ambiwlans gryn dipyn yn well nag yma yng Nghymru?
 
13:33
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
I think it is important that, where somebody is on the front bench of any party, they understand that Bodelwyddan is not in Brecon and Radnorshire. That is clearly a requirement, I would say. He talks about record-breaking cuts forgetting, of course, the fact that his own party has imposed cuts of £20 billion on the NHS in England. Of course, in England, they are called ’efficiencies’ but the effect is very much the same. Smoke and mirrors is what we see there. We know that the audit office has said that reliance should not be placed on the figures that are used in England, particularly for referral-to-treatment times. So, we take no lessons from the party opposite; we know that in their heart of hearts the NHS is simply not important to them.
Rwy’n credu ei bod yn bwysig, pan fo rhywun ar fainc flaen unrhyw blaid, eu bod yn deall nad yw Bodelwyddan ym Mrycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed. Mae hynny’n amlwg yn ofyniad, yn fy meddwl i. Mae’n sôn am doriadau mwyaf erioed gan anghofio, wrth gwrs, y ffaith fod ei blaid ef ei hun wedi gwneud toriadau o £20 biliwn i’r GIG yn Lloegr. Wrth gwrs, yn Lloegr, fe’u gelwir yn ’arbedion effeithlonrwydd’, ond tebyg iawn yw’r effaith. Castiau twyllodrus yw’r hyn a welwn yno. Rydym yn gwybod bod y swyddfa archwilio wedi dweud na ddylid dibynnu ar y ffigurau sy’n cael eu defnyddio yn Lloegr, yn enwedig ar gyfer amseroedd atgyfeirio-i-driniaeth. Felly, nid ydym yn derbyn unrhyw wersi gan y blaid gyferbyn; rydym yn gwybod, pe bydden nhw’n bod yn onest â’u hunain, nad yw’r GIG yn bwysig iddynt.
 
13:33
Nid oes ysbyty cyffredinol ychwaith y tu fewn i ffiniau Brycheiniog a Maesyfed na Phowys, ac felly mae cleifion yn gorfod cael eu cludo i ysbytai cyfagos. Mae’r ysbytai hynny o dan adolygiad ar hyn o bryd, o Fronglais reit lawr i dde Cymru. O fewn y cyd-destun hwnnw, mae’r gwasanaeth ambiwlans wedi cyfaddef y bydd yn rhaid i gleifion dreulio mwy o amser yn cael eu cludo ymhellach, ac mae’n benodol wedi cyfaddef y bydd hyn yn golygu mwy o hyfforddiant a mwy o sgiliau ar gyfer rhai o’r staff. Gan fod y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn dioddef eisoes o salwch sy’n ddwywaith yn fwy na gwasanaethau brys eraill megis yr heddlu, ym mha ffordd yr ydych chi’n mynd i sicrhau, Brif Weinidog, fod y staff a’r sgiliau angenrheidiol yno ar gyfer y teithiau hirach hyn mewn ambiwlansys sy’n dod yn sgîl ad-drefnu ysbytai?
There is no general hospital either within the boundaries of Brecon and Radnorshire or Powys and therefore patients have to be taken to nearby hospitals. Those hospitals are currently under review, from Bronglais right the way down to south Wales. In that context, the ambulance service has admitted that patients will have to spend longer being transported over greater distances, and it has specifically admitted that this will require more training and enhanced skills for certain staff. As the ambulance service is already suffering because of levels of sickness that are twice that of other emergency services such as the police, how will you ensure, First Minister, that the staff and the necessary skills are in place for these longer journeys in ambulances that will come about as a result of the reorganisation of hospitals?
 
13:34
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Dau beth: nid yw’n dilyn y bydd pobl yn gorfod trafaelio ymhellach mewn ambiwlans, gan fod ambiwlans awyr ar gael. Mae hynny wedi bod yn wir ym Mhowys am amser hir, ac rydym yn gwybod ei bod hi’n hollol naturiol ym Mhowys i argyfyngau o ran genedigaeth babis—
Two things: it does not follow that people will have to travel further in an ambulance, because the air ambulance is available. That has been true for Powys for a long time, and we know that it is entirely natural in Powys, where emergencies in terms of childbirth take place—
 
13:34
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
I call question 2, from Jenny Rathbone.
Galwaf am gwestiwn 2, gan Jenny Rathbone.
 
13:34
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Sorry, I am just wondering why—
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, rwy’n meddwl tybed pam—
 
13:34
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Sorry. I do beg your pardon, First Minister.
Mae’n ddrwg gen i. Maddeuwch i mi, Brif Weinidog.
 
13:34
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
I do need to answer the question.
Mae angen i mi ateb y cwestiwn.
 
Mae argyfyngau o ran babis yn cael eu trin lle mae’r mamau yn mynd i ysbytai yn Lloegr, neu weithiau yng Nghymru, yn yr ambiwlans awyr. Felly, mae hynny’n bosibl i bobl. Credaf fod sgiliau da gan y ’paramedics’ yn barod yng Nghymru, ond lle bydd yn rhaid ystyried neu ailystyried y sgiliau sydd ganddynt, byddwn i’n erfyn i’r ymddiriedolaeth wneud hynny.
There are emergencies in terms of childbirth where mothers are taken to hospitals in England, or sometimes in Wales, by air ambulance. So, that is a possibility for people. I do think that the paramedics already have good skills in Wales, but where we need to consider or reconsider that skillset, we would expect the trust to do that.
 
Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus
Public Services
 
13:35
Jenny RathboneBywgraffiadBiography
2. Beth all Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn gwarchod gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i’r dyfodol er mwyn darparu mwy gyda llai am y dyfodol y gellir ei ragweld? OAQ(4)1503(FM)
2. What can the Welsh Government do to ensure that local authorities are future proofing public services to deliver more with less for the foreseeable future? OAQ(4)1503(FM)
 
13:35
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Each local authority, of course, is responsible for ensuring the sustainability of the services that it delivers to individuals, families and communities. However, we are supporting local authorities to do this through legislation, policy and funding, aligned to the programme for government.
Mae pob awdurdod lleol, wrth gwrs, yn gyfrifol am sicrhau cynaliadwyedd y gwasanaethau y mae’n eu darparu i unigolion, teuluoedd a chymunedau. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn cefnogi awdurdodau lleol i wneud hyn trwy ddeddfwriaeth, polisi a chyllid, gan sicrhau eu bod yn cyd-fynd â’r rhaglen ar gyfer llywodraethu.
 
13:35
Jenny RathboneBywgraffiadBiography
The recent Wales Audit Office report on the financial challenges facing local authorities indicates that only a quarter are looking beyond the immediate budget-setting process, when we know that this is not just a short-term challenge. So, what can we do to promote a much more strategic conversation with local communities as to what services communities want and how we can deliver them sustainably?
Mae adroddiad diweddar Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ar yr heriau ariannol sy’n wynebu awdurdodau lleol yn dynodi mai dim ond chwarter sy’n edrych y tu hwnt i’r broses o bennu cyllideb tymor byr, er ein bod yn gwybod nad her ar gyfer y tymor byr yn unig yw hon. Felly, beth y gallwn ni ei wneud i hybu sgwrs llawer mwy strategol gyda chymunedau lleol ynghylch pa wasanaethau mae cymunedau eu heisiau a sut y gallwn eu darparu’n gynaliadwy?
 
13:36
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Well, of course, it is for local authorities to deliver those services that are within their responsibilities. However, as the Member will know, the Government’s view is that there needs to be a restructuring of local government in Wales. Once that process is done, I believe that it will be a situation where services are far more able to be delivered sustainably and safely in the future than is the case now.
Wel, wrth gwrs, mater i awdurdodau lleol yw darparu’r gwasanaethau hynny sydd o fewn eu cyfrifoldebau. Fodd bynnag, fel y bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, barn y Llywodraeth yw bod angen ailstrwythuro llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru. Ar ôl i’r broses honno gael ei chyflawni, rwy’n credu y bydd mewn sefyllfa lle y bydd yn llawer haws i ddarparu gwasanaethau yn gynaliadwy ac yn ddiogel yn y dyfodol na’r hyn sy’n wir ar hyn o bryd.
 
13:36
Mark IsherwoodBywgraffiadBiography
Co-production Wales has said that the futureproofing of services requires a change in service delivery, breaking down barriers between people who provide services and those who use them. How, therefore, do you respond to its call for explicit links between service providers and citizens and communities, designing delivering services together, and sharing budgets?
Mae Cydgynhyrchu Cymru wedi dweud ei bod yn ofynnol i newid y modd o ddarparu gwasanaethau gan ddileu’r rhwystrau rhwng pobl sy’n darparu gwasanaethau a’r rhai sy’n eu defnyddio, er mwyn sicrhau gwasanaethau ar gyfer y dyfodol. Sut, felly, ydych chi’n ymateb i’w alwad am gysylltiadau clir rhwng darparwyr gwasanaeth a dinasyddion a chymunedau, gan gynllunio’r ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau gyda’i gilydd, a rhannu cyllidebau?
 
13:37
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
It is important, of course, that there is collaboration and budget sharing, where that is appropriate. We would seek to ensure that, where services are made available to members of the public, either via local authorities or other public bodies, they work with the service recipients in order to ensure that the service is appropriate for the individual.
Mae’n bwysig, wrth gwrs, y ceir cydweithio a rhannu cyllideb, pan fo hynny’n briodol. Byddem yn ceisio sicrhau, pan fo gwasanaethau yn cael eu rhoi ar gael i’r cyhoedd, naill ai drwy awdurdodau lleol neu gyrff cyhoeddus eraill, eu bod yn gweithio gyda’r rhai sy’n derbyn y gwasanaeth er mwyn sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth yn addas i’r unigolyn.
 
13:37
Alun Ffred JonesBywgraffiadBiography
Gan gyfeirio at yr un adroddiad ag yr oedd Jenny Rathbone yn sôn amdano, mae’r swyddfa archwilio yn feirniadol iawn o fethiant awdurdodau lleol i fynd i’r afael â’r heriadau. Fodd bynnag, wrth ddisgrifio arfer da mewn un cyngor, mae’r adroddiad yn dweud bod y cyngor yn cael budd o arweinyddiaeth ariannol gadarn, a’i fod wedi profi cryn lwyddiant o ran cynllunio’n effeithiol ar gyfer y dyfodol. A fyddech yn ymuno â mi i longyfarch yr arweinyddiaeth a’r swyddogion yng Nghyngor Gwynedd ar eu gweledigaeth a’u llwyddiant?
Referring to the report that Jenny Rathbone mentioned, the audit office is highly critical of the failure of local authorities to tackle these challenges. However, in describing good practice in one council, the report states that the council benefits from robust financial management and has had some success in terms of planning effectively for the future. Would you join me in congratulating the leadership and officials in Gwynedd Council on their vision and success?
 
13:38
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Roeddwn yn gweld hynny’n dod o bell. Rhoddaf glod i unrhyw awdurdod lleol sy’n sicrhau ei fod yn deall beth yw’r heriau. Mae hynny’n wir, wrth gwrs, am Wynedd, ac mae’n wir am sawl awdurdod arall.
I could see that coming from a long way off. I praise any local authority that ensures that it understands the challenges ahead. That is true, of course, of Gwynedd, and it is true of a number of other authorities.
 
Cwestiynau heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau
Questions without Notice from the Party Leaders
 
13:38
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
We now move to questions from the party leaders. First this afternoon, we have the leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
Symudwn nawr at gwestiynau gan arweinwyr y pleidiau. Yn gyntaf y prynhawn yma, mae gennym arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
 
13:38
Leanne WoodBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd Plaid Cymru / The Leader of Plaid Cymru
First Minister, last week, the south Wales programme revealed its proposals for the withdrawal of critical health services from some of our hospitals, and you have fully supported its plans. You have repeatedly claimed that medical professionals themselves support centralisation. Now that Cwm Taf Local Health Board has voiced unprecedented opposition to the proposals for the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, confirming that there is no universal consensus among medical professionals, will the final decision on the future of the Royal Glamorgan Hospital be made by the Minister for Health and Social Services?
Brif Weinidog, yr wythnos diwethaf, datgelodd rhaglen de Cymru ei chynigion ar gyfer tynnu gwasanaethau iechyd hanfodol o rai o’n hysbytai, ac rydych chi wedi cefnogi ei chynlluniau’n llawn. Rydych chi wedi honni dro ar ôl tro bod gweithwyr meddygol proffesiynol eu hunain yn cefnogi canoli. Nawr bod Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Cwm Taf wedi lleisio gwrthwynebiad digyffelyb i’r cynigion ar gyfer Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, gan gadarnhau nad oes unrhyw gonsensws cyffredinol ymhlith gweithwyr meddygol proffesiynol, a fydd y penderfyniad terfynol ar ddyfodol Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn cael ei wneud gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol?
 
13:39
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
Yes, the Minister for health, of course, has the responsibility to ensure that the health service is safe and sustainable in the future.
Bydd. Y Gweinidog iechyd, wrth gwrs, sydd â’r cyfrifoldeb o sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth iechyd yn ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy yn y dyfodol.
 
13:39
Thank you for your answer, First Minister. It has become clear that the consensus that you claimed on this matter never did exist. There is no consensus, even in your own party. The current Member of Parliament for the Rhondda is saying that he is not happy, and that assumptions that were made in the reaching of the hospital downgrade proposals are a mistake. I have good reason to believe also that there are members of your own party sitting behind you who share those views. First Minister, will you show some leadership today, and assure us that we will not see any more Labour Party banners proclaiming your party’s opposition to the south Wales programme? Will you give us an undertaking that your party will be straight with people on health from now on?
Diolch i chi am eich ateb, Brif Weinidog. Mae wedi dod yn amlwg nad oedd y consensws i chi ei honni ar y mater hwn erioed yn bodoli. Nid oes consensws, hyd yn oed yn eich plaid eich hun. Mae’r Aelod Seneddol cyfredol dros y Rhondda yn dweud nad yw’n hapus, a bod y tybiaethau a wnaed wrth lunio’r cynigion israddio ysbytai yn gamgymeriad. Mae gen i reswm da i gredu hefyd bod aelodau o’ch plaid eich hun sy’n eistedd y tu ôl i chi yn rhannu’r safbwyntiau hynny. Brif Weinidog, a wnewch chi ddangos rhywfaint o arweinyddiaeth heddiw, a’n sicrhau na fyddwn yn gweld mwy o faneri’r Blaid Lafur yn cyhoeddi gwrthwynebiad eich plaid i raglen de Cymru? A wnewch chi roi ymrwymiad i ni y bydd eich plaid yn onest am iechyd gyda phobl o hyn ymlaen?
 
13:40
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
We have been straight with people. The issue is that your party has not been on any number of occasions, I have to say. Of course, the Minister for health will take decisions with regard to the final structure if certain circumstances are met. We hope that there will be agreement. If there is not agreement that will have to be looked at, or, of course, if there is a referral by a community health council, that will have to be looked at. However, what we want, of course, is to ensure that there is a sustainable health service across the whole of that part of south Wales in the future. That means looking at every hospital, not just focusing on the Royal Glamorgan, as she does.
Rydym ni wedi bod yn onest â phobl. Y broblem yw nad yw eich plaid chi wedi bod yr un mor onest ar nifer fawr o achlysuron, mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud. Wrth gwrs, bydd y Gweinidog iechyd yn gwneud penderfyniadau o ran y strwythur terfynol os bydd amgylchiadau penodol yn cael eu bodloni. Rydym yn gobeithio y bydd cytundeb. Os nad oes cytundeb, yna bydd yn rhaid edrych ar hynny, neu, wrth gwrs, os oes atgyfeiriad gan gyngor iechyd cymuned, bydd yn rhaid edrych ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn yr ydym ni ei eisiau, wrth gwrs, yw sicrhau bod gwasanaeth iechyd cynaliadwy ar draws y rhan gyfan honno o dde Cymru yn y dyfodol. Mae hynny’n golygu edrych ar bob ysbyty, nid canolbwyntio ar Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn unig, fel y mae hi’n ei wneud.
 
13:40
You will know, First Minister, that most attempts at reconfiguration are now ending up with costly judicial reviews. It is likely that the south Wales proposals will end up in the courts too. First Minister, your party is split, your plans have been rejected by the public, and senior health managers are in disagreement, as are medics. First Minister, this situation is a mess that you could end right now. Instead of pushing your deeply unpopular hospital centralisation plans, do you not think that now is the time to focus instead on boosting NHS recruitment, sorting out our ambulance service, and merging health and social care as proposed by Plaid Cymru?
Byddwch yn gwybod, Brif Weinidog, fod y rhan fwyaf o ymdrechion i ad-drefnu yn arwain at adolygiadau barnwrol costus bellach. Mae’n debygol y bydd y cynigion yn ne Cymru yn mynd i’r llysoedd hefyd yn y pen draw. Brif Weinidog, mae eich plaid wedi’i hollti, mae eich cynlluniau wedi eu gwrthod gan y cyhoedd, ac mae uwch reolwyr iechyd yn anghytuno, fel y mae meddygon. Brif Weinidog, mae’r sefyllfa hon yn llanast y gallech chi roi terfyn arno yn syth. Yn hytrach na gwthio eich cynlluniau canoli ysbytai hynod amhoblogaidd, onid ydych chi’n credu mai nawr yw’r amser i ganolbwyntio yn hytrach ar hybu’r broses recriwtio i’r GIG, cael trefn ar ein gwasanaeth ambiwlans, ac uno iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol fel y cynigiwyd gan Blaid Cymru?
 
13:41
Carwyn JonesBywgraffiadBiographyY Prif Weinidog / The First Minister
The problem that she has, of course, is that we are trying to create a health service in Wales that will be attractive for people to work in. What she wants is no change and she will see a complete collapse of services in time. All the time they claim that consultants do not support what the Government is doing. The majority of consultants do: that is a fact. You should talk to more consultants, as I do, in the whole of south Wales, and they would tell you that it is important that we have hospitals that are able to offer the right level of training, that there is enough throughput of cases, which you cannot increase artificially, and that doctors can find a hospital that is able to offer them an opportunity to practise. What she wants is a second-class health service. She wants hospitals that are staffed with doctors that are not properly trained or hospitals that are understaffed; that is more important than having doctors with the right level of expertise. I will give her one example. What was her party’s view on the centralisation of stomach and oesophageal cancer operations? It was against it. What happened? A 20% increase in survival rates. However, they would prefer to keep services local—even if those services are worse than when you can create services in centres of excellence—rather than say to the people of Wales that there are some services that have to be centralised in order that more people should live. That is the important aspect here. For her party, what is more important is that it is able to play political games rather than deliver services—[Interruption.]
Y broblem sydd ganddi, wrth gwrs, yw ein bod yn ceisio creu gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru a fydd yn ddeniadol i bobl weithio ynddo. Yr hyn y mae hi ei eisiau yw dim newid a bydd yn gweld gwasanaethau’n chwalu’n gyfan gwbl yn y pen draw. Maen nhw’n honni drwy’r amser nad yw ymgynghorwyr yn cefnogi’r hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o ymgynghorwyr yn ei gefnogi: mae hynny’n ffaith. Dylech chi siarad â mwy o ymgynghorwyr, fel rwyf i’n ei wneud, yn ne Cymru gyfan, a byddent yn dweud wrthych ei bod yn bwysig bod gennym ysbytai sy’n gallu cynnig y lefel gywir o hyfforddiant, bod digon o achosion yn mynd drwy’r ysbytai, na allwch chi ei gynyddu’n artiffisial, ac y gall meddygon ddod o hyd i ysbyty sy’n gallu cynnig cyfle iddyn nhw ymarfer. Yr hyn y mae hi ei eisiau yw gwasanaeth iechyd ail ddosbarth. Mae hi eisiau ysbytai sydd wedi eu staffio gan feddygon nad ydynt wedi eu hyfforddi’n briodol neu ysbytai nad oes ganddynt ddigon o aelodau staff; mae hynny’n bwysicach na chael meddygon â’r lefel gywir o arbenigedd. Rhoddaf un enghraifft iddi. Beth oedd barn ei phlaid hi ar ganoli llawdriniaethau canser y stumog a’r oesoffagws? Roedd hi’n ei wrthwynebu. Beth ddigwyddodd? Cynnydd o 20% i’r cyfraddau goroesi. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n well ganddyn nhw gadw gwasanaethau yn lleol—hyd yn oed os yw’r gwasanaethau hynny yn waeth na phan allwch chi greu gwasanaethau mewn canolfannau rhagoriaeth—yn hytrach na dweud wrth bobl Cymru bod rhai gwasanaethau y mae’n rhaid eu canoli fel y gall mwy o bobl fyw. Dyna’r agwedd bwysig yma. I’w phlaid hi, yr hyn sy’n bwysicach yw ei bod yn gallu chwarae gemau gwleidyddol yn hytrach na darparu gwasanaethau- [Torri ar draws.]
 
13:42
Y Llywydd / The Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Order, order.
Trefn, trefn.