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Cofnod y Trafodion
The Record of Proceedings

Dydd Mawrth, 3 Chwefror 2009
Tuesday, 3 February 2009

Cynnwys
Contents

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister

Datganiad am Ysgolion yr Unfed Ganrif ar Hugain
Statement on Twenty-first Century Schools

Datganiad Deddfwriaethol am y Gorchymyn Cymhwysedd Deddfwriaethol Arfaethedig ynghylch yr Iaith Gymraeg
Legislative Statement on the Proposed Welsh Language Legislative Competence Order

Egwyddorion Cyffredinol y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)
The General Principles of the Proposed Local Government (Wales) Measure

Penderfyniad Ariannol ar y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)
Financial Resolution for the Proposed Local Government (Wales) Measure

Cyfnod Pleidleisio
Voting Time

Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd
Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer

Yn y golofn chwith, cofnodwyd y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y Siambr. Yn y golofn dde, cynhwyswyd cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.
In the left-hand column, the proceedings are recorded in the language in which they were spoken in the Chamber. In the right-hand column, a translation of those speeches has been included.

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 1.30 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd (Dafydd Elis-Thomas) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 1.30 p.m. with the Presiding Officer (Dafydd Elis-Thomas) in the Chair.

The Record

Y Llywydd: Galwaf y Cynulliad i drefn.

The Presiding Officer: I call the Assembly to order.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister

The Record

Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiynau 1, OAQ(3)1651, a 2, OAQ(3)1661(FM), yn ôl.

The Presiding Officer: Questions 1, OAQ(3)1651, and 2, OAQ(3)1661(FM), have been withdrawn.

Sexual Assault Referral Clinics

Clinigau Atgyfeirio Ymosodiadau Rhywiol

Q3 Janet Ryder: Will the First Minister make a statement regarding sexual assault referral clinics in north Wales? OAQ(3)1671(FM)

C3 Janet Ryder: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am glinigau atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol yn y gogledd? OAQ(3)1671(FM)

The First Minister (Rhodri Morgan): I think that we are all aware that the first sexual assault referral centre in north Wales opened in Colwyn Bay two months ago. This means that there is now a centre operating in every police force area in Wales. We are currently examining how to get full health service engagement with these centres.

Y Prif Weinidog (Rhodri Morgan): Credaf ein bod i gyd yn ymwybodol bod y ganolfan gyntaf ar gyfer atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol yn y gogledd wedi agor ym Mae Colwyn ddau fis yn ôl. Mae hyn yn golygu bod canolfan o’r fath yn gweithredu ym mhob un o ardaloedd heddluoedd Cymru bellach. Ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym yn archwilio sut i sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau iechyd yn ymgysylltu’n llawn â’r canolfannau hyn.

Janet Ryder: The centre in Colwyn Bay is unique in Wales in that it is in a purpose-built building. The staffing specifications have been drawn up in conjunction with the police and health authorities to ensure that we get the right staff there to offer the support that those attending the centre need. However, it has become apparent that we only have one forensically trained female medical officer in north Wales, and there is a shortage of female doctors volunteering for this work. First Minister, will you look at that aspect? We now have the opportunity to look at the forensic training that doctors need to have in these circumstances, and to encourage more female doctors to come forward. They have to contract with the police for this work, but we need them to come forward to do that and we need the forensic training in place to ensure that the evidence collected can be presented in court, if the person assaulted chooses to go to court. Will you look at that and consider what we can do to support these centres, which are crucial to many people?

Janet Ryder: Mae’r ganolfan ym Mae Colwyn yn unigryw yng Nghymru am ei bod mewn adeilad a adeiladwyd at y pwrpas. Lluniwyd manylebau'r staff ar y cyd â’r heddlu a’r awdurdodau iechyd er mwyn inni sicrhau bod y staff cywir yno i gynnig y cymorth y mae ei angen ar y rhai sy'n mynd i'r ganolfan. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys mai dim ond un swyddog meddygol benywaidd sydd wedi cael hyfforddiant fforensig sy’n gweithio yng ngogledd Cymru, a cheir prinder meddygon benywaidd sy’n gwirfoddoli i wneud y gwaith hwn. Brif Weinidog, a edrychwch ar yr agwedd honno? Mae gennym gyfle yn awr i edrych ar yr hyfforddiant fforensig y mae ei angen ar feddygon dan yr amgylchiadau hyn, ac i annog rhagor o feddygon benywaidd i wirfoddoli. Rhaid iddynt gontractio â’r heddlu ar gyfer y gwaith hwn, ond mae arnom angen iddynt wirfoddoli i wneud hynny ac mae arnom angen sicrhau bod yr hyfforddiant fforensig ar waith i sicrhau y gellir cyflwyno’r dystiolaeth a gesglir yn y llys, os bydd yr unigolyn yr ymosodir arno yn dewis mynd i’r llys. A edrychwch ar hynny ac ystyried beth y gallwn ei wneud i gefnogi'r canolfannau hyn, sy'n hanfodol i lawer o bobl?

The First Minister: I am glad that you recognise how crucial the centres are. All of the different professionals—police, forensic doctors, psychiatrists, nurses, mentors, court officers—are all under one roof, and that is the key issue. It can therefore take two hours to deal with what would otherwise take 10 hours of being shuttled from the police station to the hospital to the voluntary sector mentor premises back to the police station, in completely dehumanised environments, with different plastic chairs. It is great, therefore, that all of the professionals are under one umbrella. In relation to the matter that you raised about staff shortages, the Minister for Health and Social Services has already asked Graham Williams, the director of Social Services Wales, to meet North Wales Police to establish where shortages exist and to try to encourage more people to come forward, as you mentioned.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cydnabod mor hanfodol yw’r canolfannau. Mae’r holl weithwyr proffesiynol gwahanol—yn swyddogion heddlu, yn feddygon fforensig, yn seiciatryddion, yn nyrsys, yn fentoriaid, yn swyddogion llys—i gyd o dan yr un to, a dyna’r mater allweddol. Felly, gall gymryd dwy awr i ymdrin â’r hyn a fyddai, fel arall, yn cymryd 10 awr o deithio’n ôl ac ymlaen o’r orsaf heddlu i'r ysbyty, i adeilad y mentor sector gwirfoddol ac yn ôl i'r orsaf heddlu, mewn amgylcheddau sydd wedi’u dad-ddyneiddio’n llwyr, gyda chadeiriau plastig gwahanol. Mae’n wych, felly, fod yr holl weithwyr proffesiynol dan un ymbarél. Yng nghyswllt y mater a godwyd gennych ynghylch prinder staff, mae’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol eisoes wedi gofyn i Graham Williams, cyfarwyddwr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru, gwrdd â Heddlu Gogledd Cymru i weld lle y mae’r prinder yn bodoli ac i geisio annog rhagor o bobl i wirfoddoli, fel y soniasoch.

Ann Jones: Like Janet, I welcome the SARC in Colwyn Bay. I remember, many years ago, realising that that was the way forward to help those who suffer from this awful trauma. Do you agree that it is an excellent example of partnership working, between the police—powers over which are not devolved to the National Assembly, but remain at Westminster—and the Home Office and all of the agencies? We are making it easier for those who have suffered the trauma of sexual assault to come forward and be treated in a way that will, hopefully, lead to a successful prosecution so that it will not happen again.

Ann Jones: Yr wyf, fel Janet, yn croesawu’r ganolfan atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol ym Mae Colwyn. Cofiaf sylweddoli, flynyddoedd maith yn ôl, mai dyna oedd y ffordd ymlaen i helpu’r rhai sy’n dioddef y trawma erchyll hwn. A gytunwch ei fod yn enghraifft wych o weithio mewn partneriaeth, rhwng yr heddlu—ac mae’r pwerau drostynt hwy yn aros yn San Steffan, yn hytrach na’u bod wedi’u datganoli i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol—a’r Swyddfa Gartref a'r holl asiantaethau? Yr ydym yn ei gwneud yn haws i'r rhai sydd wedi dioddef trawma ymosodiadau rhywiol ddod ymlaen a chael eu trin mewn ffordd a fydd, gobeithio, yn arwain at erlyniad llwyddiannus er mwyn sicrhau nad yw'n digwydd drachefn.

The First Minister: That is right. That is illustrated by the fact that when I opened what I believe may have been the first such centre, in the Cardiff Royal Infirmary, I did so jointly with Vernon Coker, the Home Office Minister. If you are the victim of sexual assault, you do not want to bother with whether a particular professional is from a devolved service, such as health or psychiatry, or from a non-devolved service, such as the police or the courts, or from the voluntary sector, which can then be subdivided into those areas that are funded from devolved budgets. All you want to know, when in a terrible state, is that you can be dealt with quickly and in a way that tries to treat you as a human being who is the victim of sexual assault. I hope that the partnership working that we have established in the six centres will do exactly that.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hynny’n gywir. Gwelir hynny yn y ffaith fy mod wedi agor y ganolfan yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd, sef y gyntaf o’r fath, yr wyf yn credu, ar y cyd â Vernon Coker, Gweinidog y Swyddfa Gartref. Os ydych yn dioddef ymosodiad rhywiol, nid oes arnoch eisiau poeni a yw gweithiwr proffesiynol penodol yn perthyn i wasanaeth sydd wedi'i ddatganoli, megis iechyd neu seiciatreg, i wasanaeth nad yw wedi’i ddatganoli, megis yr heddlu neu’r llysoedd, neu i’r sector gwirfoddol, y gellir ei isrannu wedyn i’r meysydd hynny a ariennir o gyllidebau sydd wedi’u datganoli. Y cyfan y mae arnoch eisiau ei wybod, pan fyddwch mewn cyflwr trallodus, yw y gellir ymdrin â chi’n gyflym ac mewn ffordd sy’n ceisio eich trin fel bod dynol sydd wedi dioddef ymosodiad rhywiol. Gobeithio y bydd y gweithio mewn partneriaeth yr ydym wedi’i sefydlu yn y chwe chanolfan yn gwneud yr union beth hwnnw.

Severn Estuary Tidal Power Study

Astudiaeth Ynni'r Llanw yn Aber Afon Hafren

Q4 Rosemary Butler: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Severn estuary tidal power study? OAQ(3)1654(FM)

C4 Rosemary Butler: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am yr astudiaeth ynni'r llanw yn aber Afon Hafren? OAQ(3)1654(FM)

The First Minister: You will be aware that the first phase of the Severn tidal power feasibility study has now been completed, and that a public consultation on the work carried out so far was launched last week. This seeks views on a variety of issues including the shortlist of options—the big, the small, the right-across-the-estuary, the either-side-of-the-estuary—which all have the same problem of needing to balance energy needs, renewable energy needs and the environment.

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod cam cyntaf yr astudiaeth ddichonoldeb ynghylch ynni’r llanw yn Afon Hafren wedi’i gwblhau erbyn hyn, a bod ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar y gwaith a wnaethpwyd hyd yn hyn wedi'i lansio yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae'r ymgynghoriad hwn yn gofyn am farn pobl ynghylch amrywiaeth o faterion gan gynnwys y rhestr fer o ddewisiadau—yr un mawr, yr un bach, yr un sydd ar draws yr aber, yr un sydd bob ochr i'r aber—a chyfyd yr un broblem ym mhob un ohonynt, sef bod angen cydbwysedd rhwng anghenion ynni, anghenion ynni adnewyddadwy a'r amgylchedd.

Rosemary Butler: I am concerned that the Cardiff-Weston barrage could eventually be ruled out simply on the ground of cost. Will the Welsh Assembly Government bear in mind the growing evidence that a big barrage, as well as providing sustainable energy, would prevent flooding and create thousands of jobs in construction and tourism along the whole of the Severn estuary? This in itself would surely justify the extra cost attached to the Cardiff-Weston barrage. Will the Welsh Assembly Government think big when it comes to the next stage of the consultation process?

Rosemary Butler: Yr wyf yn pryderu y gellid diystyru'r morglawdd rhwng Caerdydd a Weston yn y pen draw, ar sail y gost yn unig. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru gadw mewn cof y dystiolaeth gynyddol y byddai morglawdd mawr, yn ogystal â darparu ynni cynaliadwy, hefyd yn atal llifogydd ac yn creu miloedd o swyddi yn y diwydiannau adeiladu a thwristiaeth ar hyd aber Afon Hafren i gyd? Oni fyddai hyn yn unig yn cyfiawnhau’r gost ychwanegol sydd ynghlwm wrth y morglawdd rhwng Caerdydd a Weston? A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru feddwl ar raddfa fawr pan ddaw cam nesaf y broses ymgynghori?

The First Minister: We are certainly not ruling out the Cardiff-Weston barrage, but it must prove itself in comparison with the others. The bigger the barrage, the bigger the gain in climate change terms through averting the consumption of fuels that generate carbon dioxide. The small barrages would not really do that, as they would be one fifth of the size of the Cardiff-Weston barrage. The Lavernock-Point-to-Weston barrage is estimated to be the equivalent of three nuclear power stations or two very large thermal power stations, and therefore it would clearly, in the context of the latter comparison, avert a lot of carbon dioxide. Obviously, there are big environmental implications, and these must be assessed with huge sensitivity, while taking on board the aspect of European conservation law.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn sicr, nid ydym yn diystyru’r morglawdd rhwng Caerdydd a Weston, ond rhaid iddo brofi ei hun o’i gymharu â’r lleill. Po fwyaf yw’r morglawdd, po fwyaf fydd y manteision o ran newid yn yr hinsawdd drwy osgoi defnyddio tanwydd sy’n cynhyrchu carbon deuocsid. Ni fyddai’r morgloddiau bach yn gwneud hynny mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd un rhan o bump o faint y morglawdd rhwng Caerdydd a Weston fyddentd. Amcangyfrifir y byddai morglawdd Trwyn Larnog i Weston gymaint â thair gorsaf bŵer niwclear neu dwy orsaf bŵer thermol fawr iawn, ac felly, yn amlwg, yng nghyd-destun y gymhariaeth ddiwethaf, byddai’n osgoi llawer o garbon deuocsid. Yn amlwg, ceir goblygiadau amgylcheddol mawr, a rhaid asesu’r rhain yn sensitif dros ben, gan gadw cyfraith cadwraeth Ewrop mewn cof.

Mick Bates: The renewable energy route-map contains a commitment to examine whether European Union convergence funds could be used to run a competition to identify the best tidal lagoon site in Wales and to support the preparatory phases of the construction of what could be the world’s finest tidal energy lagoon. Against the backdrop of the feasibility list that you mentioned, which includes the Fleming and Bridgewater bay lagoons as two shortlisted options, what progress has your Government made in identifying whether EU funds could be used for a competition to develop a lagoon in Wales that would encourage blue-sky technologies to come forward with innovative ideas on the provision of the next generation of renewable energy in Wales?

Mick Bates: Mae'r trywydd ynni adnewyddadwy yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i archwilio a ellid defnyddio cronfeydd cydgyfeirio'r Undeb Ewropeaidd i gynnal cystadleuaeth i ddod o hyd i'r lleoliad gorau ar gyfer morlyn llanw yng Nghymru ac i gefnogi camau rhagbaratoawl y gwaith o adeiladu morlyn ynni'r llanw a allai fod y gorau o’i fath yn y byd. Yn erbyn cefndir y rhestr ddichonoldeb y soniasoch amdani, sy’n cynnwys morlynnoedd bae Fleming a Bridgewater fel dewisiadau ar y rhestr fer, pa gynnydd y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi'i wneud i ganfod a ellid defnyddio cronfeydd yr UE i gynnal cystadleuaeth i ddatblygu morlyn yng Nghymru a fyddai'n annog cwmnïau technoleg sydd ar flaen y gad i gynnig syniadau arloesol ynghylch darparu’r genhedlaeth nesaf o ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru?

The First Minister: As well as the shortlist of five schemes, of which you mentioned two, you will be aware that we and the South West of England Regional Development Agency have agreed to keep two other possibilities in play. We are looking at those as further investigations into innovative technologies that were not developed to a point that was not far enough for them to be placed on the shortlist. Therefore it is a case of five plus two options, which provides a wide variety of options that includes tidal fences and tidal lagoons. These offer different methods of capturing energy and generating electricity in an incremental way—the smaller schemes can capture the energy bit by bit, while the Lavernock-Point-to-Weston scheme would provide one big hit. This scheme would mean 10 years of construction and 1,500 construction jobs, and it would bring flood gains as it would be possible to control the high tides. However, the scheme must prove itself relative to the more incremental methods of capturing the enormous tidal energy from the 14m tidal range in the Severn estuary.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn ogystal â’r rhestr fer sy’n cynnwys pum cynllun y cyfeiriasoch at ddau ohonynt, byddwch yn ymwybodol ein bod ni ac Asiantaeth Ddatblygu Ranbarthol De-orllewin Lloegr wedi cytuno i barhau i ystyried dau bosibilrwydd arall. Yr ydym yn edrych ar y rheini fel ymchwiliadau pellach i dechnolegau arloesol nad oeddent wedi datblygu'n ddigon pell i allu eu cynnwys yn y rhestr fer. Felly, ceir pum dewis a dau ddewis ychwanegol, ac mae hynny'n rhoi amrywiaeth eang o ddewisiadau sy'n cynnwys ffensys llanw a morlynnoedd llanw. Mae'r rhain yn cynnig dulliau gwahanol o ddal ynni a chynhyrchu trydan mewn ffordd gynyddol—gall y cynlluniau llai ddal yr ynni fesul tipyn, ond byddai'r cynllun rhwng Trwyn Larnog a Weston yn rhoi llawer iawn iawn o ynni. Byddai'r cynllun hwn yn golygu 10 mlynedd o adeiladu a 1,500 o swyddi adeiladu, a byddai'n sicrhau manteision yng nghyswllt llifogydd oherwydd byddai’n bosibl rheoli’r llanw uchel. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r cynllun hwn brofi ei hun o’i gymharu â'r dulliau mwy cynyddol o ddal yr ynni llanw anferth o’r amrediad llanw 14m yn aber Afon Hafren.

David Lloyd: Gan ddilyn trywydd Mick Bates, pa gynnydd a wnaed yn y gwaith o ddadansoddi effeithlonrwydd morlynnoedd llanw?

David Lloyd: Further to the line taken by Mick Bates, what progress has been made in analysing the efficiency of tidal lagoons?

1.40 p.m.

 

Y Prif Weinidog: Bu’r tîm o arbenigwyr, dan gadeiryddiaeth yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros ynni a’r amgylchedd, yn ystyried y syniad o gael morglawdd ar draws môr Hafren neu un ar y naill ochr neu’r llall iddi. Bu hefyd yn ystyried y syniadau eraill a ddaeth i mewn o rannau eraill o arfordir de Cymru, yn enwedig o Abertawe. Nid oes gwaharddiad ar gyflwyno cynigion eraill i weld a allant gyfrannu yn yr un ffordd, cyhyd â’u bod yn effeithlon ac nad ydynt yn gwneud mwy o niwed i’r amgylchedd na’r daioni a ddisgwylir gan gynhyrchu’r ynni mewn modd nad yw’n cynhyrchu carbon.

The First Minister: The team of experts, chaired by the Secretary of State for energy and the environment, considered the idea of a barrage across the Severn or one on either side. It also considered other ideas from other parts of the south Wales coast, especially Swansea. There is no restriction on other ideas that could contribute in the same way, but they must be efficient and must not cause more damage to the environment than the benefits that are expected from carbon-free energy generation.

Jenny Randerson: First Minister, do you share my concern that the amount set aside to look into the so-called 'innovative’ proposals—you have suggested that two are still in the frame—is only £500,000? Do you regard that to be a realistic amount to research two projects? One of those is a tidal reef, and its organisers have stated that it would cost upwards of £0.5 million for them to carry out that research.

Jenny Randerson: Brif Weinidog, a ydych chithau’n pryderu fel yr wyf fi mai dim ond £500,000 sydd wedi’i neilltuo i archwilio’r cynigion a elwir yn 'arloesol’—-yr ydych wedi awgrymu bod dau yn dal i gael eu hystyried? A ydych yn barnu bod hwnnw’n swm realistig ar gyfer ymchwilio i ddau brosiect? Creigres lanw yw un ohonynt, ac mae trefnwyr y cynllun hwnnw wedi dweud y byddai'n costio mwy na £0.5 miliwn iddynt gynnal yr ymchwil honno.

The First Minister: We understand that the sum of money expected from Government is sufficient, but that is not to say that it would be if you expected a 100 per cent contribution from Government. However, we expect to work in partnership with the private sector and those who are generating the ideas; they are expected to bring something to the party. We have judged this finely, with the South West of England Regional Development Agency. To some extent, it is a test of the interest behind these schemes and of the credibility of the ideas if they can generate private sector interest in carrying forward, jointly and in partnership with us, the more innovative projects to capture tidal energy, such as the reefs and fences. They are innovative ideas, but they must also demonstrate that they are credible. They are coming in late, but we have not ruled them out, which is why this £0.5 million has been allocated.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn cael ar ddeall bod y swm a ddisgwylir gan y Llywodraeth yn ddigonol, ond nid yw hynny’n golygu y byddai’n ddigon petaech yn disgwyl cyfraniad o 100 y cant gan y Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn disgwyl gweithio mewn partneriaeth â’r sector preifat a’r rhai sy’n cynhyrchu’r syniadau; disgwylir iddynt gyfrannu rhywbeth. Yr ydym wedi arfarnu hyn yn fanwl ofalus, ar y cyd ag Asiantaeth Ddatblygu Ranbarthol De-orllewin Lloegr. I ryw raddau, mae’n brawf o’r diddordeb a geir yn y cynlluniau hyn ac o hygrededd y syniadau os gallant gynhyrchu diddordeb yn y trydydd sector i ddatblygu, ar y cyd ac mewn partneriaeth â ni, y prosiectau mwy arloesol i ddal ynni'r llanw, megis y creigresi a’r ffensys. Maent yn syniadau arloesol, ond rhaid iddynt ddangos hefyd eu bod yn gredadwy. Maent yn cael eu cyflwyno’n hwyr, ond nid ydym yn eu diystyru, a dyna pam y mae’r £0.5 miliwn wedi'i ddyrannu.

Lorraine Barrett: First Minister, will you assure me that, whenever the proposed Severn barrage is mentioned, it is called by its proper name? I say to everyone in the Chamber that it is between Lavernock and Weston, not between Cardiff and Weston.

Lorraine Barrett: Brif Weinidog, a wnewch fy sicrhau, pryd bynnag y cyfeirir at forglawdd arfaethedig Afon Hafren, y caiff ei alw’n ôl ei enw cywir? Dywedaf wrth bawb yn y Siambr ei fod rhwng Larnog a Weston, nid rhwng Caerdydd a Weston.

The First Minister: I agree. However, if you come from more distant parts of the United Kingdom, it is easier to understand that the barrage is between Cardiff and Weston-super-Mare than between Lavernock Point and Brean Down. Anyone who knows that wonderful stretch of coastline, and who may have helped small children to walk along it, will know that you are right to refer to it as going from the historic Lavernock Point, where Marconi made the first ever radio broadcast over water. It has become famous for that reason, and there is a blue plaque there to commemorate that, although, in the future, it may become more famous for capturing the largest amount of tidal energy anywhere in the world.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn cytuno. Fodd bynnag, os ydych yn byw mewn rhannau mwy pellennig o’r Deyrnas Unedig, mae’n haws deall bod y morglawdd rhwng Caerdydd a Weston-super-Mare na rhwng Trwyn Larnog a Brean Down. Bydd unrhyw un sy’n gyfarwydd â’r darn hyfryd hwnnw o arfordir, ac sydd efallai wedi helpu plant ifanc i gerdded ar hyd-ddo, yn gwybod eich bod yn gywir pan ddywedwch bod un pen yn lleoliad hanesyddol Trwyn Larnog, lle y gwnaeth Marconi’r darllediad radio cyntaf erioed dros ddŵr. Daeth y lle’n enwog am y rheswm hwnnw, a cheir plac glas yno i goffáu hynny, er y daw’n enwocach yn y dyfodol, efallai, am ddal mwy o ynni'r llanw nag unman arall yn y byd.

Livestock Markets

Marchnadoedd Da Byw

Q5 William Graham: Will the First Minister make a statement on the future of livestock markets in Wales? OAQ(3)1667(FM)

C5 William Graham: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ddyfodol marchnadoedd da byw yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1667(FM)

The First Minister: I suppose that one answer would be that 1.4 million prime sheep and 22,000 prime cattle cannot be wrong—although they may not exactly have volunteered to participate in the livestock markets. There will always be an important role for livestock markets in Wales in contributing to the delivery of a profitable, efficient and sustainable red meat industry. I just gave you the throughput numbers a moment ago.

Y Prif Weinidog: Tybiaf mai un ateb fyddai bod 1.4 miliwn o’r defaid gorau a 22,000 o’r gwartheg gorau yn argoeli’n dda—er nad ydynt efallai wedi gwirfoddoli i gymryd rhan yn y marchnadoedd da byw. Bydd gan farchnadoedd da byw ran bwysig i’w chwarae yng Nghymru bob amser, o ran cyfrannu at sicrhau diwydiant cig coch  sy’n broffidiol, yn effeithlon ac yn gynaliadwy. Rhoddais y niferoedd a aeth drwy’r marchnadoedd ichi funud yn ôl.

William Graham: Although I appreciate that you cannot comment on specific planning applications, you will know that, after 165 years, the Newport cattle market will close on its present site this month. There is an application for temporary consent to a site in the west of the city. Do you agree that it would be beneficial, on animal welfare and environmental grounds, for a local site to be chosen, rather than distancing it some way from the existing site?

William Graham: Er fy mod yn sylweddoli na allwch roi sylwadau ynghylch ceisiadau cynllunio penodol, gwyddoch y bydd marchnad wartheg Casnewydd yn cau ar ei safle presennol y mis hwn, ar ôl 165 o flynyddoedd. Gwnaethpwyd cais am ganiatâd dros dro i symud i safle yng ngorllewin y ddinas. A gytunwch y byddai o fudd, o ran lles anifeiliaid ac am resymau amgylcheddol, i safle lleol gael ei ddewis, yn hytrach na'i symud yn bell oddi wrth y safle presennol?

The First Minister: I understand that the current auction traders at Newport livestock market have been given notice to quit and, therefore, are seeking permission to move to a new site. There are two reasons why I do not want to comment any further: one is that it then becomes a planning issue, and the other is that we anticipate an application for financial assistance through the processing and marketing grant, and I cannot anticipate the outcome because it is in the very early stages of discussion. I understand that the application is going before the Newport planning committee on 11 February.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn cael ar ddeall bod y masnachwyr arwerthu presennol ym marchnad da byw Casnewydd wedi cael rhybudd i ymadael ac, felly, maent yn gofyn am ganiatâd i symud i safle newydd. Nid wyf am wneud sylwadau pellach am ddau reswm: un rheswm yw ei fod yn dod yn fater cynllunio wedi hynny, a’r llall yw am ein bod yn rhagweld cais am gymorth ariannol drwy’r grant prosesu a marchnata, ac ni allaf ragweld y canlyniad am fod y trafodaethau yn y camau cynnar iawn. Yr wyf yn cael ar ddeall y bydd y cais yn mynd gerbron pwyllgor cynllunio Casnewydd ar 11 Chwefror.

Mohammad Asghar: It is disappointing that Abergavenny is likely to lose its historic cattle market. Can the First Minister brief us as to whether there is any chance of saving this market for the town? Is he concerned that Monmouthshire County Council seems to be looking for short-term financial gain from the redevelopment of the site instead of thinking of creating a community facility for the people of the town, perhaps incorporating an arts centre and other attractions that might get support from the public in Abergavenny?

Mohammad Asghar: Mae’n siomedig ei bod yn debygol y bydd y Fenni yn colli ei marchnad wartheg hanesyddol. A all y Prif Weinidog roi gwybod inni a oes unrhyw siawns o achub y farchnad hon ar gyfer y dref? A yw’n bryderus bod Cyngor Sir Fynwy, i bob golwg, yn chwilio am enillion ariannol tymor byr wrth ailddatblygu’r safle yn lle meddwl am greu cyfleuster cymunedol i bobl y dref, efallai drwy ymgorffori canolfan gelfyddydau ac atyniadau eraill a allai gael cefnogaeth y cyhoedd yn y Fenni?

The First Minister: This is a long-running saga, as you know, Mohammad Asghar. I do not want to get involved in issues where there have been threats of judicial reviews and such like. However, I understand that, following the withdrawal of the approved planning application because of the threat of judicial review, the local authority and auctioneers are now trying to reach a compromise solution that will involve an out-of-town site somewhere near Raglan. I do not think that I ought to comment further.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hon yn hen saga, fel y gwyddoch, Mohammad Asghar. Nid oes arnaf eisiau bod yn rhan o faterion lle y mae  bygythiadau wedi bod y bydd adolygiadau barnwrol a  phethau o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, caf ar ddeall, wedi i’r cais cynllunio a gymeradwywyd gael ei dynnu'n ôl oherwydd  bygythiad y ceir adolygiad barnwrol, fod yr awdurdod lleol a’r arwerthwyr yn awr yn ceisio cytuno ar gyfaddawd a fydd yn golygu safle y tu allan i’r dref yn rhywle ger Rhaglan. Nid wyf yn meddwl y dylwn gyflwyno  rhagor o sylwadau.

  

Mick Bates: I welcome your support for livestock markets, and I am sure that you will join me in congratulating Welshpool Livestock Sales, which is developing a magnificent new market on the edge of Welshpool. In recognising the importance of livestock markets, you will also know what impact tuberculosis is having on the agriculture industry in Wales, and yet there are no red markets in Wales at which people whose livestock is affected by TB can sell their livestock. There are some in England. Could you use your good offices to see whether it is possible to persuade your Minister to examine this and introduce red livestock markets to Wales so that all farmers have the opportunity to sell through a livestock market?

Mick Bates: Yr wyf yn croesawu eich cefnogaeth i farchnadoedd da byw, ac yr wyf yn siŵr yr ymunwch â mi i longyfarch Welshpool Livestock Sales, sy’n datblygu marchnad newydd wych ar gyrion y Trallwng. Wrth gydnabod pwysigrwydd marchnadoedd da byw, byddwch hefyd yn gwybod am yr effaith y mae twbercwlosis yn ei chael ar y diwydiant amaeth yng Nghymru, ac eto nid oes dim marchnadoedd coch yng Nghymru lle y gall pobl a chanddynt dda byw y mae TB yn effeithio arnynt werthu eu da byw. Ceir rhai yn Lloegr. A fyddech mor garedig â gweld a yw’n bosibl perswadio eich Gweinidog i bwyso a mesur hyn ac i gyflwyno marchnadoedd da byw coch i Gymru er mwyn i bob ffermwr gael cyfle i werthu drwy farchnad da byw?   

The First Minister: I will ask Elin Jones, the Minister for Rural Affairs to look into that point, and I shyly share your congratulations on the sustained success over many years of Welshpool market, which I understand is about the biggest sheep auction market in Europe. It is of huge importance to the sheep industry, not only in Wales, but elsewhere. As you say, because it is so successful, it now wants to relocate to an out-of-town site albeit near the town of Welshpool. I have every confidence that it will be equally successful at its new site. As I say, I will ask Elin to deal with the point about the red livestock markets for TB-infected herds.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gofynnaf i Elin Jones, y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig, ystyried y sylw hwnnw, ac yr wyf finnau, fel chithau, yn llongyfarch yn ddiymhongar lwyddiant parhaus marchnad y Trallwngsef un o farchnadoedd defaid mwyaf Ewrop yn ôl a ddeallaf—dros flynyddoedd lawer. Mae’n bwysig tu hwnt i’r diwydiant defaid, yng Nghymru ac mewn lleoedd eraill. Fel y dywedwch, oherwydd ei bod mor llwyddiannus, mae yn awr am symud i safle y tu allan i'r dref sydd, er hynny, yn agos at dref y Trallwng. Mae gennyf bob ffydd y bydd y farchnad yr un mor llwyddiannus yn ei safle newydd. Fel y dywedaf, gofynnaf i Elin ddelio â’r pwynt ynghylch y marchnadoedd da byw coch ar gyfer buchesi sydd wedi’u heintio â TB.

 

Businesses in North Wales

Busnesau yn y Gogledd

Q6 Brynle Williams: What are the Welsh Assembly Government’s plans to support businesses in north Wales? OAQ(3)1668(FM)

C6 Brynle Williams: Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i gefnogi busnesau yn y gogledd? OAQ(3)1668(FM)

The First Minister: The next economic summit will take place this Friday in north Wales; we have been kindly invited by Airbus, which will host the summit at the Broughton plant. The summit will discuss economic activity levels in Wales and what we can do to sustain them to enable Wales to have as soft a landing as possible from the difficult conditions that we are experiencing. It may enable us to provide an update to people, who will be anxious to hear how the applications are going to our brand-new ProAct scheme, for which 35 applicants have almost completed the application stage.

Y Prif Weinidog: Cynhelir yr uwchgynhadledd economaidd nesaf ddydd Gwener yn y gogledd; yr ydym wedi cael gwahoddiad caredig gan Airbus, a fydd yn cynnal yr uwchgynhadledd yn y ffatri ym Mrychdyn. Bydd yr uwchgynhadledd yn trafod lefelau gweithgarwch economaidd yng Nghymru a beth y gallwn ei wneud i’w cynnal er mwyn galluogi Cymru i ymdopi yn y ffordd orau posibl â’r amodau economaidd anodd a wynebwn ar hyn o bryd. Efallai y bydd yn ein galluogi i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i bobl, a fydd yn awyddus i glywed sut y mae’r ceisiadau’n mynd rhagddynt ar gyfer ein cynllun newydd sbon, ProAct. Mae 35 o ymgeiswyr bron â chwblhau'r cam ymgeisio ar gyfer y cynllun hwnnw.    

Brynle Williams: We certainly welcome that scheme, First Minister. However, has the Assembly Government’s recent decision to increase business rates through the non-domestic multiplier not undermined the ability of businesses in north Wales to survive the recession? Do you not agree that there is an increasingly urgent need to remove the restrictions on empty property relief—an issue that I raised some 18 months ago—to help businesses that are facing the absurd situation of being forced to demolish empty premises to escape payment of the punitive charges? I can assure you that this is happening on several industrial sites in my region of north Wales.

Brynle Williams: Yr ydym yn sicr yn croesawu’r cynllun hwnnw, Brif Weinidog. Fodd bynnag, onid yw penderfyniad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ddiweddar i gynyddu ardrethi busnes drwy'r lluosydd annomestig yn tanseilio gallu busnesau yn y gogledd i oroesi’r dirwasgiad? Oni chytunwch fod angen cael gwared ar y cyfyngiadau ar ryddhad eiddo gwag, a mwy a mwy o frys i wneud hynny—mater a godais ryw 18 mis yn ôl—i gynorthwyo busnesau sy’n wynebu'r sefyllfa afresymol o gael eu gorfodi i ddymchwel eiddo gwag er mwyn osgoi talu’r taliadau llym? Gallaf eich sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd ar amryw o safleoedd diwydiannol yn fy rhanbarth, sef gogledd Cymru.    

The First Minister: The issue of business rates is a vexed one, and particularly so since the Westminster Government made its decision to terminate full rate relief for empty business premises at the six-month mark. It is not affordable for us to try to make good that rate relief or to restore it unless Westminster does so at the same time. That is the problem for us; it is simply unaffordable. However, we do have a generous rate relief scheme for small businesses, which is welcomed by those businesses. The smaller the business, the bigger the impact rates have on its profitability. The small business rate relief scheme that we have introduced has been widely welcomed in Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae ardrethi busnes yn fater blinderus, yn enwedig ers i Lywodraeth San Steffan benderfynu dod â rhyddhad ardrethi llawn ar gyfer eiddo busnes gwag ar ôl chwe mis i ben. Nid yw’n fforddiadwy inni geisio gwneud iawn am y rhyddhad ardrethi hwnnw’n dda na’i adfer oni bai fod San Steffan yn gwneud hynny yr un pryd. Dyna'r broblem inni; yn syml, nid yw'n fforddiadwy. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym gynllun rhyddhad ardrethi hael ar gyfer busnesau bach, a groesewir gan y busnesau hynny. Po leiaf yw’r busnes, po fwyaf yw’r effaith a gaiff ardrethi ar ei broffidioldeb. Mae'r cynllun rhyddhad ardrethi i fusnesau bach yr ydym wedi’i gyflwyno wedi cael croeso brwd yng Nghymru.

1.50 p.m.

 

Lesley Griffiths: As you will be aware, First Minister, 2009 is the European Year of Creativity and Innovation, and the EU recently announced its intention to inject large-scale additional funding into research and development in its future budget plans, in an attempt to use innovation as a route out of the economic decline gripping countries all over the world. Do you agree that innovation is the route-map for Wales to follow, and will you ensure that the Government will do all that it can to ensure that Wales rides this research-and-development wave towards economic recovery?

Lesley Griffiths: Fel y byddwch yn gwybod, Brif Weinidog, 2009 yw Blwyddyn Creadigrwydd ac Arloesedd Ewrop, ac yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddodd yr UE ei fwriad i roi  arian ychwanegol ar raddfa fawr ar gyfer cynnal ymchwil a datblygu yn ei gynlluniau ar gyfer y gyllideb yn y dyfodol, mewn ymgais i ddefnyddio arloesedd fel llwybr o’r dirywiad economaidd sy’n gwasgu gwledydd dros y byd i gyd. A gytunwch mai trywydd arloesedd yw’r trywydd y dylai Cymru ei ddilyn, ac a sicrhewch y gwnaiff y Llywodraeth bopeth a all i sicrhau bod Cymru’n nofio ar flaen y don hon o ymchwil a datblygu tuag at adferiad economaidd?

The First Minister: You are absolutely right. If the financial services will not lead the economy out of the recession—although they certainly led the economy into it—Governments throughout the world are contemplating where else the jobs will come from. People have depended on the idea that financial services will be for evermore, but that will clearly not be the case for the next 10 years. The automotive industries are also in difficulties, so where will the new jobs come from? They will be green jobs, creative industry jobs, and knowledge economy jobs. They are absolutely at the heart of the Lisbon strategy and of our strategy.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle. Oni fydd y gwasanaethau ariannol yn arwain yr economi o’r dirwasgiader iddynt yn sicr arwain yr economi i’r dirwasgiadmae Llywodraethau ledled y byd yn pwyso a mesur o ble arall y daw’r swyddi. Mae pobl wedi dibynnu ar y syniad y bydd gwasanaethau ariannol am byth bythoedd, ond yn amlwg ni fydd hynny’n wir am y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Mae’r diwydiannau modurol  hefyd mewn trafferthion, felly o ble y daw’r swyddi newydd? Byddant yn swyddi gwyrdd, yn swyddi ar gyfer diwydiannau creadigol, ac yn swyddi ar gyfer yr economi wybodaeth. Maent yn bendant wrth wraidd strategaeth Lisbon a'n strategaeth ninnau.

  

The Leader of the Opposition (Nick Bourne): Another vital area of the economy for businesses in north Wales—indeed, throughout Wales—is tourism. As a percentage of the UK market and as of the international market, tourism in Wales has declined in every year since 1999, with the exception of one blip in 2004. The cost to the Welsh economy in the last year for which we have figures was £267 million. Given that the pound is low against the dollar and the euro, what are you doing to ensure that there is a significant upturn in tourism, so that at least we can take advantage of that fall?

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Nick Bourne): Un maes hanfodol arall o’r economi ar gyfer busnesau yn y gogledd—yn wir, ledled Cymru—yw twristiaeth. Fel canran o farchnad y DU ac o’r farchnad ryngwladol, mae lefelau twristiaeth yng Nghymru wedi disgyn bob blwyddyn ers 1999, ac eithrio unwaith yn 2004. Yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf y mae gennym ffigurau ar ei chyfer, yr oedd y gost i economi Cymru yn £267 miliwn. O gofio bod y bunt yn isel yn erbyn y ddoler a’r ewro, beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i sicrhau y bydd twristiaeth yn cael hwb, fel y gallwn o leiaf fanteisio ar y gostyngiad hwnnw?    

The First Minister: As you said, everyone expects the consequences of the high euro, the relatively high dollar, and the low pound scenario to be that it will be much easier to attract tourists. If you have watched any television recently, you will have seen our advertising campaign to try to capitalise on the time of year. It is now that people are deciding whether to book their usual fortnight in the sun in Greece, Turkey, Spain or Italy or whether to stay at home. They may postpone the decision about where exactly to go on holiday, but they will have made the decision not to book the usual holiday in Majorca, Turkey or wherever. That is why we are advertising right now, because those decisions are pending. We do not know how it will pan out, because there is a drop in the income that is available for tourism in the UK, and there is a drop in the income that is available for tourism in Germany. On the other hand, that means that there is far less likelihood of people travelling abroad, at least as far as the British market is concerned.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fel y dywedasoch, mae pawb yn disgwyl y bydd sefyllfa’r ewro uchel, y ddoler gymharol uchel, a’r bunt isel yn ei gwneud yn haws o lawer denu twristiaid. Os ydych wedi gwylio’r teledu o gwbl yn ddiweddar, byddwch wedi gweld ein hymgyrch hysbysebu i geisio manteisio ar yr adeg o’r flwyddyn. Dyma’r adeg y mae pobl yn penderfynu a ydynt am drefnu eu pythefnos arferol yn yr haul yng Ngroeg, Twrci, Sbaen neu'r Eidal ynteu a ydynt am aros gartref. Efallai y byddant yn gohirio gwneud y penderfyniad ynghylch lle yn union i fynd ar eu gwyliau, ond byddant wedi penderfynu peidio â threfnu’r gwyliau arferol ym Majorca, Twrci neu ble bynnag y bo. Dyna pam yr ydym yn hysbysebu yn awr, oherwydd bod y penderfyniadau hynny ar droed. Ni wyddom beth fydd y canlyniadau oherwydd y mae gostynigad yn yr incwm sydd ar gael ar gyfer twristiaeth yn y DU, a gostyngiad yn yr incwm sydd ar gael ar gyfer twristiaeth yn yr Almaen. Ar y llaw arall, golyga hynny fod llai o siawns o lawer i bobl deithio dramor, o leiaf o safbwynt marchnad Prydain.

      

Nick Bourne: One important gateway for incoming tourists is Cardiff International Airport, and, from a Welsh perspective, it is far better that they use Cardiff airport to enter the UK than Bristol International Airport. You will have seen the recent news that Bristol airport is expanding, with 4,000 additional jobs and £343 million a year expected in additional revenue. In the light of that, the business development director at Cardiff International Airport, Steve Hodgetts, said the following.

Nick Bourne: Mae Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd yn un fynedfa bwysig i dwristiaid, ac, o safbwynt Cymru, mae’n well o lawer iddynt ddefnyddio maes awyr Caerdydd i ddod i’r DU na Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Bryste. Byddwch wedi gweld y newyddion yn ddiweddar fod maes awyr Bryste yn ehangu, gyda refeniw ychwanegol o £343 miliwn y flwyddyn a 4,000 o swyddi ychwanegol i’w disgwyl. Yng ngoleuni hynny, dywedodd cyfarwyddwr datblygu busnes Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd, Steve Hodgetts, y canlynol.

'The [English] regions support airlines being brought in through investment packages. Cardiff hasn’t had that sort of assistance from the Welsh Assembly Government…We need help to do that.’

Mae’r rhanbarthau [yn Lloegr] yn cefnogi rhoi pecynnau buddsoddi er mwyn denu cwmnïau hedfan. Nid yw Caerdydd wedi cael dim cymorth o’r fath gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru…Mae angen cymorth arnom i wneud hynny.

What are you doing to get airlines in and to help with measures such as those that Bristol has adopted on public transport, which are green measures, to improve connections to the airport?

Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i ddenu cwmnïau hedfan ac i gynorthwyo gyda mesurau megis y rhai y mae Bryste wedi’u mabwysiadu o ran trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, sy’n fesurau gwyrdd, i wella cysylltiadau â’r maes awyr?

The First Minister: I do not think that you should run down the connections to Cardiff International Airport, because if it has one advantage over Bristol airport, it is that it is much easier to get to. We have opened a railway station at Rhoose; admittedly, it is not under the terminal itself, but it provides far superior access to the airport than any railway station near Bristol airport. Constantly running Cardiff airport down and making adverse comparisons about the accessibility of the two cuts against all the facts. Whatever happens, you cannot say that Bristol airport is easy to get to. Cardiff airport may not be the easiest airport to get to, but it is better than Bristol airport, and you should not be implying the opposite.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni chredaf y dylech ddifrïo'r cysylltiadau â Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd, oherwydd os oes ganddo un fantais dros faes awyr Bryste, y ffaith ei bod yn haws o lawer ei gyrraedd yw honno. Yr ydym wedi agor gorsaf reilffordd yn y Rhws; rhaid cyfaddef, nid yw dan y derfynell ei hun, ond mae’n darparu mynediad gwell o lawer i’r maes awyr nag unrhyw reilffordd ger maes awyr Bryste. Mae difrïo maes awyr Caerdydd a gwneud cymariaethau anffafriol am fynediad at y ddau o hyd ac o hyd yn mynd yn groes i’r  ffeithiau i gyd. Beth bynnag a fydd yn digwydd, ni allwch ddweud ei bod yn hawdd cyrraedd maes awyr Bryste. Efallai nad maes awyr Caerdydd yw’r maes awyr hwylusaf i'w gyrraedd, ond mae’n well na maes awyr Bryste, ac ni ddylech fod yn awgrymu fel arall.

 

When it comes to comparisons on the Government assistance given to the two airports, I would like to see the evidence. When Bmibaby decided to locate planes in Cardiff International Airport and run a degree of low-cost services from there, we certainly assisted it. I do not know whether Ryanair and Easyjet received any assistance from the regional development association, Bristol City Council or anyone else, but we have certainly done our fair share.

Wrth gymharu’r cymorth a roddwyd gan y Llywodraeth i’r ddau faes awyr, hoffwn weld y dystiolaeth. Pan benderfynodd Bmibaby leoli awyrennau ym Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd a rhedeg gwasanaethau rhad oddi yno, yn sicr gwnaethom ei gynorthwyo. Ni wn a gafodd Ryanair nac Easyjet unrhyw gymorth gan y gymdeithas datblygu rhanbarthol, Cyngor Dinas Bryste na neb arall, ond yr ydym ni’n bendant wedi gwneud ein siâr.

Nick Bourne: I am just surprised that you have not had these discussions with Cardiff International Airport’s business development director. I did not make the criticisms; he did. Everyone knows that Bristol International Airport is expanding, but Cardiff airport is contracting. People from south Wales often have to go to Bristol, because that is the only place the airlines are running from. Therefore, we will take no lectures from you on that. That is a fact.

Nick Bourne: Synnu yr wyf nad ydych wedi cynnal y trafodaethau hyn gyda chyfarwyddwr datblygu busnes Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Nid fi oedd yn beirniadu ond ef. Gŵyr pawb fod Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Bryste yn ehangu, ond mae maes awyr Caerdydd yn lleihau. Rhaid i bobl y de fynd i Fryste yn aml gan mai oddi yno’n unig y mae’r awyrennau’n mynd, Felly, ni chymerwn ddarlith gennych am hynny. Mae hynny’n ffaith.

I will move on to another area that has been neglected by the Government, namely the Olympic Games. We heard from the Minister at Westminster last week that only four supply deals have come to Welsh firms, at a combined value of tens of thousands of pounds, compared with an Olympic project value of £9.3 billion. Is that not inadequate? Have you taken up Tessa Jowell’s offer to see what further support can be provided to Welsh firms?

Af ymlaen at faes arall sydd wedi’i esgeuluso gan y Llywodraeth, sef y Gemau Olympaidd. Clywsom gan y Gweinidog yn San Steffan yr wythnos diwethaf mai dim ond pedwar cytundeb cyflenwi sydd wedi dod i gwmnïau o Gymru, a chyfanswm o ddegau o filoedd o bunnoedd yn gyfan gwbl, o'i gymharu â gwerth prosiect y Gemau Olympaidd, sef £9.3 biliwn. Onid yw hynny'n annigonol? A ydych wedi manteisio ar gynnig Tessa Jowell i weld pa gymorth arall y gellir ei ddarparu i gwmnïau o Gymru?

The First Minister: Can we be clear? You have raised the issue of Cardiff and Bristol airports, but you have not cited any evidence; you have quoted someone else who has not quoted any evidence. You are giving it credibility by repeating it now, so I assume that you have checked your facts. If you like chucking allegations around without checking the facts, that is fine, but let the public know that you do not mind whether what you are saying is fact-free, as I suspect, is based on any checking, or is a simple reading of a newspaper headline. You love quoting newspaper headlines; I like looking at facts. Sorry about the difference, but that is how it is.

Y Prif Weinidog: A gawn fod yn glir? Yr ydych wedi sôn am faes awyr Caerdydd a maes awyr Bryste, ond heb gynnwys dim tystiolaeth; yr ydych wedi dyfynnu geiriau rhywun arall nad yw wedi dyfynnu dim tystiolaeth. Yr ydych yn rhoi hygrededd iddo drwy ei ailadrodd yn awr, felly yr wyf yn cymryd eich bod wedi cadarnhau cywirdeb eich ffeithiau. Os ydych yn hoffi taflu honiadau heb wneud yn siŵr bod y ffeithiau’n gywir, mae hynny’n iawn, ond rhowch wybod i’r cyhoedd nad oes ots gennych a yw’r hyn a ddywedwch yn seiliedig ar ffeithiau, fel yr wyf yn amau, a ydych yn sicr o’r ffeithiau, neu a ydych yn syml yn darllen pennawd o bapur newydd. Yr ydych wrth eich bodd yn dyfynnu penawdau papur newydd; yr wyf fi’n hoffi edrych ar ffeithiau. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf am y gwahaniaeth, ond felly y mae.

On the Olympics, we hope that the Welsh companies that have accessed the www.competefor.com website in large numbers will now move on to win a contract. We can hold their hands for so long, but then they have to go out and win the business. Billions of pounds-worth of business has to be won over the next two years. The big expansion in the spend on the Olympics will take place over the next 18 months to two years. It is up to Welsh businesses to use the assistance that we can give them. They have to make the competitive bids and get in there and win.

O ran y Gemau Olympaidd, gobeithiwn y bydd y llu o gwmnïau o Gymru sydd wedi ymweld â gwefan www.competefor.com yn awr yn mynd ymlaen i ennill contract. Gallwn ddal eu dwylo am hyn a hyn, ond yna mae’n rhaid iddynt fynd allan ac ennill y busnes. Mae’n rhaid i fusnes gwerth biliynau o bunnoedd gael ei ennill dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Bydd y gwariant ar y Gemau Olympaidd yn cynyddu’n fawr yn ystod y 18 mis i ddwy flynedd nesaf. Penderfyniad busnesau Cymru fydd a ydynt am ddefnyddio’r cymorth y gallwn ei roi iddynt ai peidio. Rhaid iddynt wneud y ceisiadau cystadleuol a bwrw ati i ennill.

Nick Bourne: You do not seem to be on top of your brief. I am surprised that you are not speaking to Cardiff International Airport; you are relying on me to do it for you.

Nick Bourne: Nid ydych, i bob golwg, wedi darllen eich briff yn iawn. Yr wyf yn synnu nad ydych yn siarad â Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd; yr ydych yn dibynnu arnaf fi i wneud hynny ar eich rhan.

You have not answered the question that I asked about the Olympic contract. Have you spoken to Tessa Jowell to get further support for Welsh firms?

Nid ydych wedi ateb y cwestiwn a ofynnais ynghylch contractau’r Gemau Olympaidd. A ydych wedi siarad â Tessa Jowell ynghylch cael cymorth ychwanegol i gwmnïau o Gymru?

The First Minister: If you make an allegation, as you did, about Cardiff and Bristol airports, you have to back it up by checking it. You have not checked it, but you love quoting a newspaper headline. Check your facts and then decide whether you think it worthwhile throwing it across the floor of the Chamber, or whether you just like repeating what you have read in newspapers. We can all read newspapers; we do not need the leader of the opposition to help us to read newspaper headlines. We want facts, and we will look at any facts, but today’s newspapers are tomorrow’s chip wrappers.

Y Prif Weinidog: Os ydych yn gwneud honiad, fel y gwnaethoch, ynghylch maes awyr Caerdydd a maes awyr Bryste, rhaid ichi wneud yn siŵr ei fod yn gywir. Nid ydych wedi gwneud yn siŵr ei fod yn gywir, ond yr ydych wrth eich bodd yn dyfynnu pennawd papur newydd. Gwnewch yn siŵr bod eich ffeithiau’n gywir ac yna penderfynu a ydych yn meddwl ei fod yn werth ei daflu ar draws y Siambr, neu ai dim ond hoffi ailadrodd yr hyn a ddarllenasoch mewn papurau newydd yr ydych. Gall pob un ohonom ddarllen papurau newydd; nid oes arnom angen cymorth arweinydd yr wrthblaid i ddarllen penawdau papur newydd. Mae arnom eisiau ffeithiau, a byddwn yn edrych ar unrhyw ffeithiau, ond bydd papurau newydd heddiw'n angof erbyn yfory.

On the Olympics, I have not personally spoken to Tessa Jowell. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: 'Oh.’] What a wonderful noise you all made. The farmyard is here today.

O ran y Gemau Olympaidd, nid wyf fi’n bersonol wedi siarad â Tessa Jowell. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: 'O.’] Am sŵn bendigedig a wnaethoch i gyd. Mae gennym anifeiliaid fferm yma heddiw.

The Presiding Officer: Order. I ask the First Minister not to encourage them.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Gofynnaf i’r Prif Weinidog beidio â’u hannog.

The First Minister: I was just commenting that the bad weather has not kept them in the farmyard.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr unig beth yr oeddwn yn ei ddweud yw nad yw’r tywydd gwael wedi’u cadw ar fuarth y fferm.

Officials from our Olympic assistance body will, I trust, have been discussing this with Welsh companies because they are in contact with them. They know which companies they are, because they have expressed interest via the website. However, I do not think that we can take the responsibility for winning the contracts. We can hold companies’ hands, but they have to get out there, compete, make competitive bids and win that business.

Bydd swyddogion o’n corff cymorth ar gyfer y Gemau Olympaidd, yr wyf yn hyderu, wedi bod yn trafod hyn â chwmnïau o Gymru gan eu bod mewn cysylltiad â hwy. Gwyddant pa gwmnïau ydynt, oherwydd y maent wedi dangos diddordeb drwy’r wefan. Fodd bynnag, ni chredaf y gallwn ysgwyddo’r  cyfrifoldeb dros ennill y contractau. Gallwn ddal dwylo cwmnïau, ond rhaid iddynt hwy fwrw ati a chystadlu, gwneud ceisiadau cystadleuol ac ennill y busnes hwnnw.

Gareth Jones: Mae hynny’n newyddion da am y contractau. Fodd bynnag, wrth i’r dirwasgiad byd-eang daro Cymru’n galed, a gytunwch mai un o’r camau ymarferol pwysicaf y gall Llywodraethau a chyrff cyhoeddus ei gymryd yw sicrhau bod cymaint â phosibl o fudd yn mynd i’r economi leol o gontractau mawr am weithfeydd cyhoeddus? Ar ôl trafod hyn yn fanwl gyda Chartrefi Conwy, landlord cymdeithasol newydd Conwy, gwn ei fod yn gwneud ymdrechion mawr i wneud hynny wrth gychwyn rhaglen adnewyddu gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd i gyrraedd safon ansawdd tai Cymru. Mae contractau wedi eu llunio’n ofalus i sicrhau bod yn agos at 100 y cant o’r llafur a’r cyflenwadau yn lleol, bod hyfforddiant tendro am gontractau, a bod cyngor adeiladol yn mynd i’r sawl sy’n methu. Mae’r targedau hyn i gyd yn gyraeddadwy ac yn cael eu darparu gan yr ymgynghorwyr yn Rhondda Cynon Taf ac Ynys Môn. A wnewch gadarnhau bod gweithdrefnau tebyg yn eu lle i sicrhau’r budd mwyaf posibl i’r economi leol, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol, yn sgîl adeiladu pencadlys newydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yng Nghyffordd Llandudno?

Gareth Jones: That is good news about the contracts. However, as the global recession strikes Wales hard, do you agree that one of the most important practical steps that the Government and other public bodies can take is to ensure that as much benefit as possible goes to the local economy from major contracts for public works? Having discussed this in detail with Cartrefi Conwy, the new social landlord for Conwy, I know that it is making a concerted effort to do that as it starts its multimillion-pound renovation programme to achieve the Welsh housing quality standard. Contracts have been drawn up carefully to ensure that nearly 100 per cent of the labour and supplies are locally sourced, that there is training on tendering for contracts, and that constructive advice is given to those who fail. These targets are all achievable and are provided by the consultants in Rhondda Cynon Taf and the Isle of Anglesey. Will you confirm that similar procedures are in place to ensure the greatest possible benefits to the local economy, now and for the future, with the new Welsh Assembly Government headquarters being built in Llandudno Junction?

2.00 p.m.

 

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr hyn yr ydym wedi llwyddo i’w wneud yw ychwanegu at ganran contractau’r sector cyhoeddus, o’r gwasanaeth iechyd, o lywodraeth leol, gennym ni ac o rai o adrannau’r Llywodraeth ganolog sy’n gweithredu yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn deall bod y ganran a enillwyd gan gwmnïau o Gymru wedi codi dros y pump i chwe blynedd diwethaf, o draean i hanner y £5 biliwn sy’n cael ei wario gan y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.

The First Minister: What we have succeeded in doing is pushing up the percentage of public sector contracts, from the health service, from local government, from us and from some of the central Government departments operating in Wales. We understand that the percentage won by companies from Wales rose over the past five or six years, from one third to half the £5 billion that is being spent by the public sector in Wales.

O ran cartrefi Cymru, mae cyfleoedd anferth ar gael drwy’r broses o wella tai cyngor ar ôl iddynt gael eu trosglwyddo i gyrff newydd gan fod hynny’n rhyddhau arian i dalu am godi safon tai yn y sector cymdeithasol, i gyrraedd y safon a bennwyd yn wreiddiol gan Edwina Hart. Mae biliynau o bunnoedd ar gael i’w gwario yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, Conwy ac yn y blaen. Yr ydym yn gobeithio y bydd hynny’n ychwanegu at y ganran a enillir gan gwmnïau a phobl sy’n cyflogi pobl leol yng Nghymru wrth i’r broses honno fynd yn ei blaen dros y tair, pedair neu bum mlynedd nesaf.

Regarding Welsh homes, enormous opportunities are available through the process of improving council homes after they have been transferred to new organisations, given that that releases money to pay for improving standards in the social housing sector, to achieve the standard originally set by Edwina Hart. Billions of pounds are available to be spent in Rhondda Cynon Taf, Conwy and so forth. We hope that that will push up the percentage won by companies and those who employ local people in Wales as that process moves on over the next three, four or five years.

Eleanor Burnham: Yn seiliedig ar ffeithiau—rhag ofn ichi fy nghyhuddo o beidio â seilio fy nghwestiynau innau ar ffeithiau—hoffwn ofyn eto, yr wythnos hon, am ddatganiad cadarn am yr hyn y bydd eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i helpu busnesau bach. Mae’r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach wedi cynnig cynllun pum pwynt i greu a chynnal gwaith i’r busnesau bach y mae’n eu cefnogi. Mae gennyf lythyr gan y sefydliad SgiliauAdeiladu sy’n cefnogi’r cwestiwn a ofynnais, ac yr wyf yn ei ofyn eto. Beth ydych yn ei wneud? Mae’r sefydliad yn dweud bod dadfwndelu yn broblem gyfredol i nifer o gwmnïau bach ar draws Cymru. Felly, hoffwn wybod yn union beth yr ydych yn bwriadu ei wneud, gan ein bod yn pryderu’n fawr am y mater hwn ar draws y gogledd.

Eleanor Burnham: Based on facts—in case you accuse me of not basing my questions on facts—I would like to ask again, this week, for a firm statement on what your Government is doing to assist small businesses. The Federation of Small Businesses has proposed a five-point work plan to create and maintain work for the small businesses that it supports. I have a letter from the ConstructionSkills organisation in support of the question that I asked, and I ask it again. What are you doing? The organisation states that unbundling is currently a problem for a number of small companies throughout Wales. Therefore, I would like to know exactly what you intend to do, as we are very concerned about this matter across the whole of north Wales.  

Y Prif Weinidog: Ar ôl blynyddoedd o fwndelu a allai fod yn anfanteisiol i gwmnïau bach, mae dadfwndelu’n digwydd yn awr er mwyn ceisio sicrhau nad yw cwmnïau bach—sy’n fwy tebygol o leoli eu busnesau yn lleol ac o wybod yn union lle i gael gweithwyr lleol—o dan anfantais o ganlyniad i’r broses a fu ar waith. Felly, mae’r duedd honno wedi ei gwrthdroi dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, o’n rhan ni.

The First Minister: After years of bundling, which can disadvantage small companies, unbundling is taking place now to ensure that small companies—which are more likely to be locally based and to know exactly where to source local workers from—are not disadvantaged as a result of the process that has been carried out. Therefore, that trend has been reversed over the past year, as far as we are concerned.  

Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 7, OAQ(3)1655(FM), yn ôl.

The Presiding Officer: Question 7, OAQ(3)1655(FM), has been withdrawn.

Bilingualism in the Welsh Courts Service

Dwyieithrwydd yn y Gwasanaeth Llysoedd

Q8 Chris Franks: Will the First Minister make a statement regarding bilingualism in the Welsh courts service? OAQ(3)1666(FM)

C8 Chris Franks: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ddwyieithrwydd yn y gwasanaeth llysoedd yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1666(FM)

The First Minister: The Welsh Language Board oversees the provision of bilingual services in the Welsh courts and it is a vital element of the 'One Wales’ commitment of creating a truly bilingual Wales. Although the Welsh courts are not devolved, they do have a Welsh language scheme that is overseen by the Welsh Language Board, which is devolved.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg yn goruchwylio darpariaeth gwasanaethau dwyieithog yn llysoedd Cymru ac mae’n elfen hanfodol o ymrwymiad 'Cymru’n Un’ i greu Cymru wirioneddol ddwyieithog. Er nad yw llysoedd Cymru wedi’u datganoli, mae ganddynt gynllun iaith Gymraeg a oruchwylir gan Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, sydd wedi’i ddatganoli.

Chris Franks: I am disappointed, as I am sure that you are, that the Welsh courts service can no longer, after a period of 40 years, send bilingual summonses, as it claims that its new computer system cannot cope with that. Does this not demonstrate why we need new laws and a language commissioner to ensure equality between the two languages?

Chris Franks: Yr wyf yn siomedig, fel chithau hefyd mae’n siŵr, nad yw llysoedd Cymru, ar ôl cyfnod o 40 mlynedd, bellach yn gallu anfon gwysion dwyieithog, oherwydd y maent yn honni nad yw eu system gyfrifiadurol newydd yn gallu ymdopi â hynny. Onid yw hyn yn dangos pam mae angen cyfreithiau newydd a chomisiynydd iaith arnom i sicrhau cydraddoldeb rhwng y ddwy iaith?

The First Minister: That is a difficult issue since you then enter the domain of considering what is devolved and what is not. The legislative competence Order—which Alun Ffred Jones, the Minister for Heritage published yesterday—does not cover non-devolved services. I know that that is difficult to explain given that the Welsh Language Board is responsible for monitoring the Welsh language scheme, but it is not part of the transfer of powers that we have been seeking, and neither is the Welsh language media, such as S4C. It is odd when you consider that the first ever Welsh language legislation was the Welsh Courts Act 1942, which was passed by the Churchill Government in the dark days of Dunkirk and El Alamein, when we were surrounded by death and destruction; however, the Government still passed the Welsh Courts Act 1942. Nevertheless, it is not a devolved service.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hwnnw’n fater anodd oherwydd yr ydych yn dechrau ystyried beth sydd wedi’i ddatganoli a beth nad yw wedi’i ddatganoli. Nid yw’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol—a gyhoeddwyd ddoe gan Alun Ffred Jones, y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth—yn cynnwys gwasanaethau nad ydynt wedi’u datganoli. Gwn fod hynny’n anodd ei esbonio o gofio bod Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg yn gyfrifol am fonitro’r cynllun iaith Gymraeg, ond nid yw’n rhan o’r pŵerau yr ydym wedi bod yn ceisio’u trosglwyddo, nac ychwaith y cyfryngau Cymraeg, megis S4C. Mae’n rhyfedd o fyd pan fyddwch yn ystyried mai’r ddeddfwriaeth gyntaf erioed yn ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg oedd Deddf Llysoedd Cymru 1942, a basiwyd gan Lywodraeth Churchill yn nyddiau tywyll Dunkirk ac El Alamein, pan oedd marwolaeth a dinistr o’n hamgylch ym mhobman; serch hynny, pasiwyd Deddf Llysoedd Cymru 1942 gan y Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n wasanaeth sydd wedi’i ddatganoli.

Digital Switchover

Newid i Ddigidol

Q9 Sandy Mewies: Will the First Minister outline what the Welsh Assembly Government can do to support and inform the people of Wales in relation to the digital switchover? OAQ(3)1665(FM)

C9 Sandy Mewies: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog amlinellu’r hyn y gall Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ei wneud i gefnogi a hysbysu pobl Cymru o ran y newid i ddigidol? OAQ(3)1665(FM)

The First Minister: We are in regular discussions with Digital UK, the UK Government and Ofcom about the digital switchover. Digital UK is a private-sector-led body and we are represented on the UK Government’s digital switchover group and the Digital UK all-Wales stakeholder group.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn cynnal trafodaethau rheolaidd gyda Digital UK, Llywodraeth y DU ac Ofcom am y newid i ddigidol. Mae Digital UK yn gorff sy’n cael ei arwain gan y sector preifat a chawn ein cynrychioli ar grŵp newid i ddigidol Llywodraeth y DU a grŵp rhanddeiliaid Cymru gyfan Digital UK.

Sandy Mewies: I know, from some of the questions that I have had from my constituents, that there is concern, particularly among older people, about how the digital switchover will work, and how much it will cost them. Is it not essential that more publicity is given to the help that is available for older and disabled people in Wales?

Sandy Mewies: Gwn fod pryder, yn sgîl rhai o’r cwestiynau yr wyf wedi’u cael gan fy etholwyr, yn enwedig ymhlith pobl hŷn, ynghylch sut y bydd y newid i ddigidol yn gweithio, a faint y bydd hyn yn ei gostio iddynt. Onid yw’n hanfodol rhoi mwy o gyhoeddusrwydd ynghylch y cymorth sydd ar gael i bobl hŷn a phobl anabl yng Nghymru?

The First Minister: I entirely agree, as an older person who is totally baffled by how to switch the television on and off—well, I can just about manage that. Some of your constituents in Bagillt and Flint have had problems for many years in picking up Welsh transmitters. It is important that one of the English transmitters that serves them—namely Storeton—is switched over and carries Welsh regional programmes, BBC Wales, S4C, and so on, in the autumn of this year. However, the other transmitter that serves the area—the Winter Hill transmitter—will not. We must, therefore, ensure that the Storeton switchover is successful and on time. Both Storeton and Winter Hill are in England, but after switchover, one will carry the Welsh signal and one will not.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn cytuno’n llwyr, fel person hŷn sy’n ei chael yn anodd rhoi’r teledu i fynd a’i ddiffodd—wel, yr wyf fwy neu lai yn llwyddo i wneud hynny. Mae rhai o’ch etholwyr ym Magillt ac yn y Fflint wedi cael problemau ers blynyddoedd lawer o ran derbyn signal gan drosglwyddyddion yng Nghymru. Mae’n bwysig bod un o'r trosglwyddyddion sy'n eu gwasanaethu—sef Storeton—yn newid i ddigidol ac yn darparu rhaglenni rhanbarthol o Gymru, BBC Cymru Wales, S4C ac yn y blaen, yn yr hydref eleni. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd y trosglwyddydd arall sy’n gwasanaethu’r ardal—sef trosglwyddydd Winter Hill—yn gwneud hynny. Felly, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y newid i ddigidol yn Storeton yn llwyddiannus ac yn brydlon. Mae Storeton a Winter Hill ill dau yn Lloegr, ond ar ôl newid i ddigidol, bydd un yn cario signal Cymru, ond ni fydd y llall.

Darren Millar: It is not just disabled or older people who may be in need of assistance. In some parts of my constituency—for example, in Gwyddelwern—there are households that will only be able to access digital TV through satellite systems rather than the set-top box that most other households will be able to use. Given that the cost of a satellite system is considerably greater than the cost of a set-top box, what additional support is the Assembly Government able to give, over and above that from the UK Government, to ensure that Welsh households are not digitally disadvantaged once the switchover takes place?

Darren Millar:  Nid pobl anabl na phobl hŷn yw’r unig rai y gall fod angen cymorth arnynt. Mewn rhai rhannau o’m hetholaeth—er enghraifft, yng Ngwyddelwern—dim ond drwy systemau lloeren y bydd rhai cartrefi’n gallu gwylio teledu digidol, yn hytrach na’r blwch ar ben y teledu y bydd y rhan fwyaf o gartrefi’n gallu ei ddefnyddio. O gofio bod cost system lloeren yn sylweddol uwch na chost blwch ar ben y teledu, pa gymorth ychwanegol y gall Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ei roi, yn ychwanegol at yr hyn a roddir gan Lywodraeth y DU, i sicrhau nad yw cartrefi Cymru dan anfantais yn ddigidol ar ôl y newid i ddigidol?

The First Minister: I think that you are referring to the problem that parts of north Wales have with satellite reception. Geostationary satellites do not work for those who live in a north-facing valley, or on a north-facing slope; such satellites rotate around the equator, and therefore there is no line of sight from them to a north-facing valley.

Y Prif Weinidog: Credaf eich bod yn cyfeirio at y broblem mewn rhannau o’r gogledd o ran derbyniad lloeren. Nid yw lloerennau daearsefydlog yn gweithio ar gyfer y rhai sy’n byw mewn dyffryn sy’n wynebu’r gogledd, nac ar lechwedd sy’n wynebu’r gogledd; mae lloerennau o’r fath yn cylchdroi o amgylch y cyhydedd, felly nid oes llwybr clir rhyngddynt a dyffryn sy’n wynebu’r gogledd.

It is not a matter for us to consider financial assistance because, as you know, there is enormous pressure on the public budget here. We should not give the UK Government an opt-out by suggesting that it should not worry about this, and that we will step in with assistance—especially since we usually tell the UK Government that we need more money. We can do more in policy areas that are devolved. You may have come up with a cunning idea, but you should probably be asking your parliamentary colleagues to take it up with the UK Government.

Nid mater i ni yw ystyried cymorth ariannol, oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, mae pwysau anferth ar y gyllideb gyhoeddus yn y fan hon. Ni ddylem roi esgus i Lywodraeth y DU drwy awgrymu na ddylent boeni am hyn, ac y byddwn yn dod i’r adwy gyda chymorth—yn enwedig gan ein bod fel arfer yn dweud wrth Lywodraeth y DU fod angen mwy o arian arnom. Gallwn wneud mwy mewn meysydd polisi sydd wedi’u datganoli. Mae’n bosibl eich bod wedi taro ar syniad dyfeisgar, ond efallai y dylech ofyn i’ch cyd-Aelodau Seneddol godi’r mater â Llywodraeth y DU.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A fydd y cyngor a roddir i bobl Cymru yn nodi’r ffaith na fydd pawb yn gallu derbyn y trosglwyddiad digidol yn llawn? Bydd y sawl sy’n derbyn y gwasanaeth llawn yn cael cynnig chwe amlbleth, ond dim ond tri fydd ar gael i rai. Mae perygl y bydd rhai yn cael eu camarwain i gredu y bydd pawb, unwaith y bydd y newid i ddigidol yn digwydd, yn derbyn yr un gwasanaeth. A wnewch chi sicrhau bod yr wybodaeth gywir yn cael ei rhoi i bobl Cymru fel na chaiff pobl eu siomi gan y gwasanaeth y byddant yn ei dderbyn?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Will the advice given to people in Wales highlight the fact that not everyone will be able to receive the digital transmission in full? Those who receive the full service will be offered six multiplexes, but others will have only three. There is a risk that some will be misled to think that, once digital switchover occurs, everyone will receive the same service. Will you ensure that the accurate information is given to the people of Wales so that people are not disappointed by the service that they receive?

Y Prif Weinidog: Gallwn geisio sicrhau bod y sawl sy’n cymryd rhan yn y cynlluniau peilot gyda Digital UK a Llywodraeth y DU, yn arbennig Ofcom, yn sicrhau bod yr wybodaeth ar gael i bobl a allai gael eu siomi. Rhaid cydweithio’n drwyadl i wneud y newid yn gymharol esmwyth, fel y bydd pawb, sef y diwydiant sy’n gwerthu blychau pen set, setiau teledu, radios DAB ac ati, a’r defnyddwyr, a’r bobl sy’n creu’r cynnwys ar y gwahanol donfeddi, yn fwy bodlon ac yn osgoi’r siomedigaeth y cyfeiriwch ati.

The First Minister: We can try to ensure that those who participate in the pilot schemes with Digital UK and the UK Government, particularly Ofcom, make sure that that information is available to people who might be disappointed. We must work inclusively together to facilitate a smooth switchover so that everyone is satisfied and avoids the disappointment that you described, from the industry that sells set-top boxes, DAB radios, and the users, to those who create the content for the various channels.

Lorraine Barrett: You may not understand how it works, First Minister, but the digital switchover gives television companies and producers the opportunity to be quite innovative in what they offer to us, the viewers. Will you therefore join me in expressing great concern at the decision of ITV Wales, supported by Ofcom, to drop its signed news service from its 6 p.m. flagship bulletin? This will disenfranchise many users of British Sign Language, for whom this is the main news source. It is a retrograde step and, amazingly, they say that it being done to fall in line with the rest of ITV’s regional news. Would you join me in saying that Wales Tonight should show the way forward, not the way back?

Lorraine Barrett: Efallai nad ydych yn deall sut y mae’n gweithio, Brif Weinidog, ond mae’r newid i ddigidol yn rhoi cyfle i gynhyrchwyr a chwmnïau teledu fod yn eithaf arloesol yn yr arlwy a gynigiant i ni, y gwylwyr. Felly, a wnewch ymuno â mi i fynegi cryn bryder yn sgîl penderfyniad ITV Cymru, gyda chefnogaeth Ofcom, i roi’r gorau i’w wasanaeth newyddion gydag iaith arwyddion yn ei brif fwletin am 6 p.m.? Bydd hyn yn difreinio llawer o ddefnyddwyr Iaith Arwyddion Prydain, oherwydd mai hwn yw eu prif ffynhonnell o newyddion. Mae’n gam yn ôl, ac yn rhyfeddol, maent yn dweud eu bod yn gwneud hyn i gydymffurfio â’r drefn ar raglenni newyddion rhanbarthol eraill ITV. A wnewch ymuno â mi i ddatgan y dylai Wales Tonight ddangos y ffordd ymlaen, yn hytrach na’r ffordd yn ôl?

2.10 p.m.

 

The First Minister: I entirely agree with you, and I am sure that you are picking up the strong sympathy for that point of view around the Chamber. In many of the changes that ITV has imposed on ITV Wales, you can see a consistent pattern whereby it is trying to wriggle out of its public service broadcasting obligations. This is another example of this. If there is one decision that ITV should immediately reverse, it is the one that you have just described to us, because there is no possible justification for dropping the signed news service just because it may not be available in all of the English regions or in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Y Prif Weinidog: Cytunaf yn llwyr â chi, ac yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn sylwi ar y cydymdeimlad cryf â’r safbwynt hwnnw o gwmpas y Siambr. Mewn llawer o’r newidiadau y mae ITV wedi’u gorfodi ar ITV Cymru, gallwch weld patrwm cyson lle y maent yn ceisio bwrw heibio eu hymrwymiadau darlledu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus. Mae hon yn enghraifft arall o hyn. Os oes un penderfyniad y dylai ITV ei wyrdroi'n syth, yna’r penderfyniad yr ydych newydd ei ddisgrifio inni yw hwnnw, oherwydd nid oes cyfiawnhad yn y byd dros roi’r gorau i’r gwasanaeth newyddion gydag iaith arwyddion oherwydd nad yw ar gael o bosibl ym mhob un o ranbarthau Lloegr, yn yr Alban nac yng Ngogledd Iwerddon.

Higher Education

Addysg Uwch

Q10 Lesley Griffiths: Will the First Minister make a statement on higher education in Wales? OAQ(3)1656(FM)

C10 Lesley Griffiths: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am addysg uwch yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1656(FM)

The First Minister: The most significant and recent development has been the publication of the results of the 2008 research assessment exercise. The results show that, since 2001, the proportion of world-class research in Welsh universities has increased from 70 to 93 per cent. In the STEM subjects alone, which are science, technology, engineering and mathematics, the proportion of world-class research stands at 78 per cent, in comparison with 44 per cent in England. There is no room for complacency, but massive progress has been made.

Y Prif Weinidog: Y datblygiad mwyaf sylweddol yn ddiweddar fu cyhoeddi canlyniadau ymarferiad asesu ymchwil 2008. Mae’r canlyniadau’n dangos fod cyfran yr ymchwil o safon fyd-eang ym mhrifysgolion Cymru wedi codi o 70 i 93 y cant ers 2001. Yn y pynciau a elwir yn STEM yn unig, sef gwyddoniaeth, technoleg, peirianneg a mathemateg, mae cyfran yr ymchwil o safon fyd-eang yn 78 y cant, o’i gymharu â 44 y cant yn Lloegr. Ni thâl inni fod yn hunanfodlon, ond mae cynnydd anferthol wedi’i wneud.

 

Lesley Griffiths: You are right that those results were announced recently, just after the Assembly broke for Christmas recess. Therefore, we have not had the opportunity to remark on the great success stories and achievements of universities across Wales.

Lesley Griffiths: Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle bod y canlyniadau hynny wedi cael eu cyhoeddi’n ddiweddar, yn syth ar ôl i wyliau Nadolig y Cynulliad ddechrau. Felly, nid ydym wedi cael cyfle i sôn am lwyddiannau mawr prifysgolion ledled Cymru a’r hyn a gyflawnwyd ganddynt.

I am proud to say that Wales’s newest university—Glyndŵr University in my constituency of Wrexham—achieved world-class results in two areas of research. Do you agree that these results prove that, despite being a new university, Glyndŵr can hold its own alongside the traditional universities when it comes to world-class research, and that this should bode well for Glyndŵr when it comes to future funding?

Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod prifysgol ieuengaf Cymru—Prifysgol Glyndŵr yn fy etholaeth, Wrecsam—wedi cael canlyniadau o safon fyd-eang mewn dau faes ymchwil. A ydych yn cytuno bod y canlyniadau hyn yn profi, er ei bod yn brifysgol newydd, fod Glyndŵr yn gallu dal ei thir wrth sefyll ochr yn ochr â’r prifysgolion traddodiadol o ran ymchwil o safon fyd-eang, ac y dylai hyn argoeli’n dda i Glyndŵr pan ddaw’n bryd darparu cyllid yn y dyfodol?

The First Minister: Even though they are teaching-led and not research-led, all post-1992 universities achieved remarkable results in the research assessment exercise and showed a big improvement since 2001. I often make the point that the pre-1992 universities have the main obligation of pushing up the level of world-class research in Wales. However, that does not mean that the post-1992 universities, including the newest ones such as Glyndŵr University, should not be aiming to undertake world-class research of this kind, even though their main job is to increase access to higher education at the undergraduate and foundation degree level.

 

Y Prif Weinidog: Er mai cael eu hysgogi gan addysgu yn hytrach nag ymchwil y maent, cafodd pob prifysgol ôl-1992 ganlyniadau ardderchog yn yr ymarferiad asesu ymchwil a dangoswyd gwelliant mawr ers 2001. Yr wyf yn aml yn gwneud y pwynt mai’r prifysgolion cyn-1992 sydd â’r ddyletswydd bennaf o godi lefel yr ymchwil o safon fyd-eang yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny'n golygu na ddylai’r prifysgolion ôl-1992, gan gynnwys y rhai mwyaf diweddar megis Prifysgol Glyndŵr, fod yn anelu at gynnal ymchwil o safon fyd-eang o’r math hwn, er mai eu prif swyddogaeth yw cynyddu mynediad at addysg uwch ar lefel cwrs gradd a gradd sylfaen.

Jonathan Morgan: I am sure that you would agree that a thriving economy needs a thriving higher education sector, and that higher education in Wales makes a massive contribution to the economy of Wales. Therefore, could you tell me whether or not representatives of the higher education sector have been invited to your economic summits?

Jonathan Morgan: Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn cytuno bod angen sector addysg uwch ffyniannus ar economi ffyniannus, a bod addysg uwch yng Nghymru yn gwneud cyfraniad anferth at economi Cymru. Felly, a allwch ddweud wrthyf a yw cynrychiolwyr y sector addysg uwch wedi cael gwahoddiad i'ch uwchgynadleddau economaidd ai peidio?

The First Minister: Jane Hutt and I had a meeting with the vice-chancellors of the universities recently, but I cannot remember whether any of them are represented at the economic summits. However, we would all accept the principle that we should have a thriving sector and an ability to commercialise the huge amount of intellectual property that is available in those universities. We should also try to make sure that that has an impact on the economy. Commercialisation of our existing intellectual property is the key to future success in achieving a knowledge economy.

 

Y Prif Weinidog: Cafodd Jane Hutt a fi gyfarfod ag is-gangellorion y prifysgolion yn ddiweddar, ond ni allaf gofio a oes rhai ohonynt yn cael eu cynrychioli yn yr uwchgynadleddau economaidd. Fodd bynnag, byddai pob un ohonom yn derbyn yr egwyddor y dylai fod gennym sector ffyniannus a'n bod yn gallu masnacheiddio’r eiddo deallusol anferth sydd yn y prifysgolion hynny. Dylem hefyd geisio sicrhau bod hynny’n cael effaith ar yr economi. Masnacheiddio ein heiddo deallusol presennol yw’r allwedd i lwyddiant i’r dyfodol o ran sicrhau economi wybodaeth.

Bethan Jenkins: Fel y gwyddoch, cynhelir ymgynghoriad ar hyn o bryd ar gyllid myfyrwyr. A ydych yn credu ei bod yn beth da bod y Llywodraeth yn ystyried caniatáu i fyfyrwyr fynd i fwy o ddyled, o ystyried bod y sefyllfa economaidd yn dirywio’n syfrdanol yma yng Nghymru?

 

Bethan Jenkins: As you are aware, a consultation is being held at the moment on student funding. Do you believe that it is a good thing for the Government to consider allowing students to get into more debt, given that the economic situation here in Wales is deteriorating at an alarming rate?

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn credu ei bod yn bosibl gwneud popeth a fyddai’n ddelfrydol yn gysyniadol i wrthsefyll effaith y dirywiad yn yr economi. Derbyniaf y bydd llawer o fyfyrwyr yn awyddus i fynd i’r brifysgol gan fod llai o gyfleoedd ar gael yn y farchnad lafur ar hyn o bryd, ac y bydd llawer o wasgu arnynt yn ariannol. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn sicr a fydd y myfyrwyr hynny yn awyddus i gael benthyciad gan y Student Loans Company cyn gorfod talu’r swm hwnnw’n ôl os byddant yn ennill mwy na’r isafswm a bennwyd. Yr hyn sy’n sicr yw bod llawer o bethau y byddem yn dyheu am gael eu gwneud, ond nid ydynt yn bosibl gyda’r cyllid sydd gennym. Nid wyf yn sicr a allwn newid y telerau presennol ar gyfer rhywun sy’n ceisio penderfynu dilyn cwrs prifysgol ai peidio.

   

The First Minister: It would not be possible to do everything that would be ideal, conceptually, to withstand the impact of the economic downturn. I accept that many students will be keen to go university, given that there are fewer opportunities in the labour market, and that there will be a lot of financial pressure on them. However, I am not certain whether those students will be keen to take out a loan from the Student Loans Company before having to pay it back if they earn more than the minimum amount stipulated. What is certain is that there are many things that we aspire to be able to do, but they are not possible within the budget available to us. I am not certain whether we could change the current conditions for someone who is trying to decide whether to attend university.  

Peter Black: Last month, the Welsh Affairs Committee joined a number of other bodies and organisations in recognising that there was a £61 million funding gap between higher education institutions in Wales and those in England. Does your Government accept that conclusion, and what are you going to do about it, given your previous commitment to close that gap?

Peter Black: Y mis diwethaf, ymunodd y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig â nifer o gyrff a sefydliadau eraill wrth gydnabod bod £61 miliwn o fwlch cyllidol rhwng sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghymru a’r rhai yn Lloegr. A yw eich Llywodraeth yn derbyn y casgliad hwnnw, a beth yr ydych yn mynd i’w wneud ynghylch y sefyllfa,  o gofio eich ymrwymiad blaenorol i leihau’r bwlch hwnnw?

The First Minister: We all recognise the validity of some of the comparisons made. We also recognise that there was a schoolboy howler in the Welsh Affairs Committee’s report, although that is unfair to schoolboys, as regards what it said about Cardiff University and not comparing like with like.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae pob un ohonom yn cydnabod dilysrwydd rhai o’r cymariaethau a wnaethpwyd. Yr ydym hefyd yn cydnabod bod camgymeriad y gallai bachgen ysgol fod wedi’i wneud yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig, er bod hynny’n annheg i fechgyn ysgol, o ran yr hyn a ddywedodd am Brifysgol Caerdydd ac nad yw pethau sy’n debyg yn cael eu cymharu.

It is important that everyone recognises the massive progress that has been made. It would have been unthinkable 10 years ago for one of our universities to have two Nobel prize-winning scientists on its staff, as Cardiff University now has, and I mentioned earlier the figures going from 70 per cent to 93 per cent of the world-class research density. Therefore, there is evidence of a lot of progress.

Mae’n bwysig i bawb gydnabod y cynnydd enfawr sydd wedi cael ei wneud. Ni fyddem wedi gallu dychmygu 10 mlynedd yn ôl y byddai gan un o’n prifysgolion ddau wyddonydd sydd wedi ennill gwobr Nobel ar ei staff, fel sydd gan Brifysgol Caerdydd yn awr, a chrybwyllais yn gynharach fod y ffigurau wedi codi o 70 y cant i 93 y cant o ran yr ymchwil o safon fyd-eang. Felly, mae tystiolaeth bod llawer o gynnydd wedi bod.

I have not studied the figures on the funding gap and I have not received advice on whether those figures are regarded as completely okay and understandable or whether they are open to considerable doubt; I do not know.

Nid wyf wedi astudio’r ffigurau o ran y bwlch cyllidol ac nid wyf wedi cael cyngor a yw’r ffigurau hynny’n cael eu hystyried yn gwbl gywir a dealladwy ynteu a ydynt yn destun amheuaeth sylweddol; ni wn.

The New Regional Health Boards

Y Byrddau Iechyd Rhanbarthol Newydd

Q11 Peter Black: Will the First Minister make a statement on the cost of implementing the new regional health boards? OAQ(3)1663(FM)

C11 Peter Black: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y gost o roi’r byrddau iechyd rhanbarthol newydd ar waith? OAQ(3)1663(FM)

The First Minister: It is expected that they will generate savings, in terms of money as well as in improved efficiency. All of that saved money will be reinvested in patient front-line services.

Y Prif Weinidog: Disgwylir y byddant yn cynhyrchu arbedion, ar ffurf arian yn ogystal â gwella effeithlonrwydd. Bydd yr holl arian hwnnw a gaiff ei arbed yn cael ei ail-fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau rheng flaen i gleifion.

Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, First Minister. A similar statement was made when the 22 local health boards were set up not so many years ago. When will we have some costings in front of us so that we can make a proper assessment of the precise cost of this reorganisation and the savings that you envisage as a result?

Peter Black: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Brif Weinidog. Gwnaethpwyd datganiad tebyg pan sefydlwyd y 22 o fyrddau iechyd lleol ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. Pryd y cawn gostiadau o’n blaen fel y gallwn asesu union gost yr ad-drefnu hwn yn briodol ynghyd â’r arbedion yr ydych yn eu rhagweld o ganlyniad?

The First Minister: I do not think that you are right about that comparison with the local health boards. I do not think that we said that there would be savings; I think that we said that there would be nil net costs, which is rather different. On this occasion, I will ask Edwina Hart to consider this exchange of views, and if she can give up-to-date costings, she will give them, but if not, we will have to wait until we have boiled the figures down and can make them reasonably publishable.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni chredaf eich bod yn iawn am y gymhariaeth honno â’r byrddau iechyd lleol. Ni chredaf inni ddweud y byddai arbedion; credaf inni ddweud na fyddai costau net, sy’n bur wahanol. Y tro hwn, gofynnaf i Edwina Hart ystyried y drafodaeth hon, ac os gall hi roi costiadau cyfredol, fe’u rhydd, ond os na all, bydd yn rhaid inni ddisgwyl nes byddwn wedi gallu crisialu’r ffigurau ac yn gallu eu gwneud yn weddol barod i’w cyhoeddi.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Brif Weinidog, a ydych yn cytuno mai’r peth pwysig o ran yr ad-drefnu hwn yw bod eglurdeb newydd yn dod i mewn i’r system, yn enwedig ar gyfer cleifion, fel y gallant weld yn glir beth yw’r broses a sut mae eu triniaeth yn cael ei phrosesu yn y gwasanaeth iechyd? O dan yr hen drefn, yr oedd cyrff yn beio’u gilydd, neu yr oedd awdurdodau iechyd lleol yn beio’r ymddiriedolaethau, ac yr oedd yn anodd iawn, hyd yn oed i Aelodau etholedig, ganfod y sefyllfa yn union. Rhaid i’r drefn newydd a gyflwynwyd gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fod yn dryloyw ac o gymorth i’r claf.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: First Minister, do you agree that the important element of this reorganisation is to introduce a new clarity into the system, especially for patients, so that they can see clearly what the process is and how their treatment is processed within the health service? Under the old arrangements, organisations blamed each other, or the health authorities blamed the health trusts, and it was very difficult, even for elected Members, to find out exactly what the situation was. The new arrangements introduced by the Minister for Health and Social Services must be transparent and of assistance to the patient.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydych yn gywir i godi’r pwynt hwn. O ran y claf a theulu’r claf, yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw’r driniaeth: pryd fyddant yn cael y driniaeth; a yw’r driniaeth honno o’r radd flaenaf; a oes rhaid iddynt aros yn ormodol i gael y driniaeth; a beth yw safon y cymorth o ran y broses adsefydlu ar ôl y driniaeth. Nid yw’n fater o glaf yn cael ei drin fel rhan o’r system o brynu a gwerthu a fodolai yn yr hen drefn, ac yna system o gomisiynu a chyflenwi. Yr ydym ar ganol y broses o uno er mwyn cyrraedd y nod a ddisgrifiwyd gennych, lle mae’r cwsmer, sef y claf, yn gwybod y caiff ei drin, ond nid o ganlyniad i broses o fargeinio rhwng dwy ochr yr un gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol.

The First Minister: You are right to raise that point. For the patient and family, what is important is the treatment: when they will get treatment; is it the best possible treatment; is there an excessive wait for the treatment; and what is the standard of support given for rehabilitation purposes afterwards. It is not a case of treating the patient as part of the system of buying and selling, as existed under the old arrangements, and then a system of commissioning and supplying. We are in the middle of a process of merging to hit the target that you describe, where the customer, namely the patient, knows that he or she will be treated, but not as a result of any bargaining between two sides of the one national health service.

Nick Ramsay: I hope that Rhodri Glyn Thomas is right and that we get more transparency from the new health structure. I also hope that we have transparency in due course on seeing the exact costings of this process. I believe that the restructuring of the local health boards in south-east Wales is to be completed, I believe, by the end of September. Do you believe that that restructuring is on course and that we are likely to see an efficient and better-run local health structure in place by the end of year?

Nick Ramsay: Gobeithio bod Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn iawn ac y cawn fwy o dryloywder drwy’r strwythur iechyd newydd. Gobeithio hefyd y cawn dryloywder maes o law ynglŷn ag union gostiadau’r broses hon. Credaf fod yr ailstrwythuro ar y byrddau iechyd lleol yn y de-ddwyrain i fod i gael ei gwblhau, yr wyf yn credu, erbyn diwedd mis Medi. A ydych yn credu bod yr ad-drefnu hwnnw’n mynd rhagddo yn unol â’r disgwyl a’n bod yn debygol o weld strwythur iechyd lleol effeithlon, sy’n cael ei redeg yn well, wedi’i sefydlu erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn?

The First Minister: We have two windows, effectively—you either start a new structure on 1 April or you start it halfway through the financial year on 1 October. The aim, as you say, is to be up and running on 1 October, and we understand that the subordinate legislation—I am not sure whether it has been passed yet—will be coming forward on the basis that all of this can be completed on 1 October of this year.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae gennym ddwy ffenestr, i bob diben—un ai yr ydych yn dechrau strwythur newydd ar 1 Ebrill neu yr ydych yn ei ddechrau hanner ffordd drwy’r flwyddyn ariannol ar 1 Hydref. Y nod, fel y dywedwch, yw y bydd y drefn yn weithredol ar 1 Hydref, a deallwn y bydd yr is-ddeddfwriaeth—nid wyf yn siŵr a yw wedi cael ei phasio eto—yn dod gerbron ar y sail y bydd modd cwblhau hyn i gyd ar 1 Hydref eleni.

The Impact of the Current Financial Crisis on Wales

Effaith yr Argyfwng Ariannol Presennol ar Gymru

Q12 David Melding: What meetings has the First Minister had with representatives of the UK Government to discuss the impact of the current financial crisis on Wales? OAQ(3)1652(FM)

C12 David Melding: Pa gyfarfodydd y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael gyda chynrychiolwyr Llywodraeth y DU i drafod effaith yr argyfwng ariannol presennol ar Gymru? OAQ(3)1652(FM)

The First Minister: This is a pretty constant process of frequent discussions, which will be reaffirmed when the Secretary of State for Wales is able to attend the fourth summit meeting in Flintshire on Friday.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae proses bur gyson o drafodaethau mynych, a gaiff ei hailgadarnhau pan fydd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yn gallu dod i’r bedwaredd uwchgynhadledd yn sir y Fflint ddydd Gwener.

David Melding: You have said recently that you have no idea when the economic recession is likely to end. Most international commentators, such as the International Monetary Fund, predict that there will be some recovery in 2010, even in the UK, although it is thought that we will be flatlining at that stage. Do you not agree that Government policies should be at least based on the assumption that some recovery will start in 2010 and that you need to be more expansive and optimistic in how you respond to this incredible crisis?

David Melding: Yr ydych wedi dweud yn ddiweddar nad oes gennych ddim syniad pryd y mae’r dirwasgiad economaidd yn debygol o orffen. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o sylwebwyr rhyngwladol, megis y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol, yn darogan y bydd rhywfaint o welliant yn 2010, hyd yn oed yn y DU, er y tybir na fydd ein sefyllfa’n gwella nac yn gwaethygu erbyn hynny. Onid ydych yn cytuno y dylai polisïau’r Llywodraeth gael eu seilio o leiaf ar y rhagdybiaeth y bydd rhywfaint o welliant yn dechrau yn 2010 a bod angen ichi fod yn fwy agored ac optimistaidd o ran sut yr ydych yn ymateb i’r argyfwng anhygoel hwn?

2.20 p.m.

 

The First Minister: This is a no-win situation for any politician, as I am sure you would agree, David. If I were to predict that by the fourth quarter of 2009, the downturn will have started to flatline and that there will be an upturn in the first quarter of 2010 and it does not happen, you would remind me of it, and say, 'Well, there is a forecast that did not come true.’ I was being as brutally honest as every Minister should be—I said that I did not know and nor did anybody else who is honest about it; they do not know either. Nobody knows because of the unique nature of this crisis.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hon yn sefyllfa lle nad oes modd i ddim un gwleidydd ennill, fel y byddech yn cytuno, yr wyf yn siŵr, David. Petawn yn darogan y bydd y dirywiad wedi dechrau dod i ben erbyn pedwerydd chwarter 2009 ac y bydd y sefyllfa’n gwella yn chwarter cyntaf 2010, ac na fyddai hynny’n digwydd, chi fyddai’r cyntaf i’m hatgoffa o hynny, a dweud, 'Wel, dyna ragolwg na chafodd ei wireddu’. Yr oeddwn yn bod mor gignoeth o onest ag y dylai pob Gweinidog fod—dywedais nad oeddwn yn gwybod ac nad oes neb arall sy’n onest ynglŷn â’r mater yn gwybod ychwaith. Nid oes neb yn gwybod oherwydd natur unigryw’r argyfwng hwn.

You will have had new comparisons and new forecasts. We do expect a new forecast, obviously, at the time of the budget. The Government has held off strenuously from publishing any other forecast. It published one at the time of the pre-budget report. It is in the business of forecasting, and it has a team that is expected to give the Minister a forecast. He then reads it and decides whether or not he goes with that forecast. There will then be another one at the time of the budget in March. We are not in the business of forecasting. I am speaking on the basis that I do not believe that anybody actually knows when the upturn will come. There will be a flatline point and there will be an upturn.

Byddwch wedi cael cymariaethau newydd a rhagolygon newydd. Yr ydym yn disgwyl rhagolwg newydd, yn amlwg, adeg y gyllideb. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi ymwrthod yn gryf â chyhoeddi unrhyw ragolwg eraill. Cyhoeddodd un adeg yr adroddiad rhag-gyllidebol. Mae’n arfer llunio rhagolygon, ac mae ganddi dîm y mae disgwyl iddo roi rhagolygon i’r Gweinidog. Mae ef wedyn yn eu darllen ac yn penderfynu a yw’n cytuno â’r rhagolwg hwnnw ai peidio. Bydd rhagolwg arall adeg y gyllideb ym mis Mawrth. Nid ydym ni’n arfer llunio rhagolygon. Yr wyf yn siarad ar y sail nad wyf yn credu bod neb yn gwybod mewn gwirionedd pryd y bydd y sefyllfa’n gwella. Daw adeg pan fydd y dirywiad yn dod i ben a bydd y sefyllfa’n gwella.

There will, of course, be some green shoots in advance of the upturn. What those green shoots will be is also unpredictable, but I would anticipate that there will be some signs of flatlining in some markets, be that in the housing market, the automotive market or in retail; we do not know. However, there will be some signs that some sectors are beginning to recover, simply because inflation and the cost of oil have been coming down so rapidly, and because some of the tax breaks and the injection of capital in the economy will start to combine to have the effect of causing a pick-up. However, this may not be a GDP pick-up until later.

Bydd rhywfaint o egin gobaith cyn y gwelliant wrth gwrs. Mae’n anodd dweud beth fydd yr egin hwnnw hefyd, ond byddwn yn rhagweld y bydd rhai arwyddion bod y dirywiad yn dod i ben mewn rhai marchnadoedd, boed hynny yn y farchnad dai, y farchnad fodurol neu ym maes manwerthu; ni wyddom. Fodd bynnag, bydd rhai arwyddion bod rhai sectorau’n dechrau gwella, am y rheswm syml bod chwyddiant a chost olew wedi bod yn gostwng mor gyflym, ac oherwydd y bydd rhai o’r manteision treth a’r chwistrelliad o gyfalaf i’r economi yn dechrau cyfuno i beri gwelliant. Fodd bynnag, efallai na fydd gwelliant o ran CMC tan yn ddiweddarach.

Alun Davies: First Minister, I am sure that many people throughout Wales have looked at the proactive, imaginative and creative way that this Government has responded to the economic downturn and compared that with the action of the do-nothing Tories. I am sure that you would agree that one of the ways in which we can respond to this economic downturn is to invest in training and retraining. In the light of that, many of us will have welcomed the £68 million that has been spent by this Government on retraining packages. First Minister, will you ensure that businesses know and understand how they can access this funding and ensure that this demonstrates that the Government is listening and then acting?

Alun Davies: Brif Weinidog, yr wyf yn siŵr bod llawer o bobl ledled Cymru wedi edrych ar y ffordd ragweithiol, lawn dychymyg a chreadigol y mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi ymateb i’r dirywiad economaidd ac wedi cymharu hynny â gweithredoedd y Torïaid nad ydynt yn gwneud dim. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn cytuno mai un o’r ffyrdd y gallwn ymateb i’r dirywiad economaidd hwn yw drwy fuddsoddi mewn hyfforddi ac ailhyfforddi. Yng ngoleuni hynny, bydd llawer ohonom wedi croesawu’r £68 miliwn sydd wedi cael ei wario gan y Llywodraeth hon ar becynnau ailhyfforddi. Brif Weinidog, a wnewch sicrhau bod busnesau’n gwybod ac yn deall sut y gallant gael gafael ar y cyllid hwn a sicrhau bod hyn yn dangos bod y Llywodraeth yn gwrando ac yna’n gweithredu?

The First Minster: To use the phrase of John Maples, deputy chairman of the Conservative Party, who said in response to this recession, not the last one, 'You have got to let the recession take its course’. We do not accept that; we have a totally different philosophy. We have come in with the ProAct scheme, which we have funded with £48 million of public money. The scheme was set up probably faster than any other new programme of government activity in peace-time conditions. We are already receiving and processing applications. Some companies that have submitted particularly good applications will be hearing this week that they have been successful. That shows that we are not only proactive, but that we are getting to the heart of the problem, which is that some companies want to hang on to their skilled labour force even though they do not have enough work for them at the moment, because they see an upturn coming. However, they do not want to pay them to stay at home but rather to retrain, and that is what we are doing. We have agreed with them that that is what we should be doing. We have brought in a unique scheme in the UK, called ProAct. We found £48 million to fund it over the next 13 or 14 months and we are now beginning to tell successful applicants that they will have assistance under the scheme.

Y Prif Weinidog: A defnyddio ymadrodd John Maples, dirprwy gadeirydd y Blaid Geidwadol, a ddywedodd wrth ymateb i’r dirwasgiad hwn, nid yr un diwethaf, 'Rhaid ichi adael i’r dirwasgiad redeg ei gwrs’. Nid ydym ni’n derbyn hynny; mae gennym athroniaeth gwbl wahanol. Yr ydym wedi cyflwyno cynllun ProAct, a gyllidwyd gennym â £48 miliwn o arian cyhoeddus. Sefydlwyd y cynllun yn gyflymach mae’n debyg nag unrhyw raglen newydd arall o weithgarwch gan lywodraeth o dan amodau heddwch. Yr ydym eisoes yn cael ac yn prosesu ceisiadau. Bydd rhai cwmnïau sydd wedi cyflwyno ceisiadau neilltuol o dda yn clywed yr wythnos hon eu bod wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Mae hynny’n dangos ein bod nid yn unig yn rhagweithiol, ond ein bod yn mynd at wraidd y broblem, sef bod rhai cwmnïau am ddal eu gafael ar eu gweithlu medrus er nad oes ganddynt ddigon o waith iddynt ar y funud, am eu bod yn gweld gwelliant yn dod. Fodd bynnag, nid ydynt am dalu iddynt am aros gartref ond yn hytrach am ailhyfforddi, a dyna yr ydym yn ei wneud. Yr ydym wedi cytuno â nhw mai dyna y dylem ei wneud. Yr ydym wedi cyflwyno cynllun sy’n unigryw yn y DU, o’r enw ProAct. Canfuom £48 miliwn i’w gyllido dros y 13 neu 14 mis nesaf ac yr ydym yn awr yn dechrau dweud wrth ymgeiswyr llwyddiannus y byddant yn cael cymorth o dan y cynllun.

Jeff Cuthbert: First Minister, one of the most recent developments in terms of the economic crisis has been the unofficial demonstrations outside workplaces calling for British jobs for British workers. While we understand the issues that people face in terms of training and wanting to keep their jobs, we reject absolutely the opportunist demands of right-wing groups like UKIP and the BNP in seeking to divide workers.

Jeff Cuthbert: Brif Weinidog, un o’r datblygiadau diweddaraf o ran yr argyfwng economaidd yw’r gwrthdystiadau answyddogol y tu allan i weithleoedd yn galw am swyddi Prydeinig i weithwyr o Brydain. Er ein bod yn deall y problemau y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu o ran hyfforddiant a’r awydd i gadw eu swyddi, rhaid inni wrthod yn llwyr alwadau oportiwnyddol grwpiau adain dde fel UKIP a’r BNP sy’n ceisio rhannu gweithwyr.

The First Minister: I cannot abide xenophobia in any shape of form. We have asked the trade unions in Wales whether they are aware of any skills shortages that we can make good in terms of using the money we have available for sustaining skills, so that when these big contracts come on stream in Wales, like the Port Talbot biomass power station and the Uskmouth power station, Welsh workers are not disadvantaged by not having the relevant skills. We need to make good any skills shortages. There may be other schemes that have not yet had planning permission, but there will be thousands of jobs available because we know that there are construction projects worth £6 billion or £7 billion in the pipeline, of the type that have caused this flashpoint in Lindsey, and we want to make sure that Welsh workers have the relevant skills so that they are at the races and cannot be discriminated against on the grounds that they have not done this kind of work before.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni allaf oddef estrongasedd o unrhyw fath. Yr ydym wedi gofyn i’r undebau llafur yng Nghymru a ydynt yn ymwybodol o unrhyw brinder sgiliau y gallwn wneud iawn amdano drwy ddefnyddio’r arian sydd ar gael gennym i gynnal sgiliau, fel na fydd gweithwyr Cymru o dan anfantais gan nad yw’r sgiliau perthnasol ganddynt pan fydd y contractau mawr hyn yn dechrau yng Nghymru, megis gorsaf biomas Port Talbot a gorsaf drydan Aber-wysg. Mae angen inni wneud iawn am unrhyw ddiffyg sgiliau. Efallai fod cynlluniau eraill nad ydynt wedi cael caniatâd cynllunio eto, ond bydd miloedd o swyddi ar gael oherwydd yr ydym yn gwybod bod prosiectau adeiladu gwerth £6 biliwn neu £7 biliwn yn yr arfaeth, o’r math sydd wedi achosi’r cythrwfl hwn yn Lindsey, ac yr ydym am wneud yn siŵr bod gan weithwyr Cymru y sgiliau perthnasol fel y byddant yno’n cystadlu ac na ellir gwahaniaethu yn eu herbyn ar y sail nad ydynt wedi gwneud y math hwn o waith o’r blaen.

Provision of Public Transport

Darpariaeth Trafnidiaeth Gyhoeddus

Q13 Nick Bourne: Will the First Minister make a statement on the provision of public transport in Wales? OAQ(3)1657(FM)

C13 Nick Bourne: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ddarpariaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru? OAQ(3)1657(FM)

The First Minister: This is all set out in 'One Wales: Connecting the Nation—The Wales Transport Strategy’, which sets out our priorities. The national transport plan will provide detailed proposals for taking forward priorities for promoting better public transport, including promoting better access to key services and facilities.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hyn i gyd wedi’i gyfleu yn 'Cymru’n Un: Cysylltu’r Genedl—Strategaeth Drafnidiaeth Gymru’, sy’n gosod ein blaenoriaethau. Bydd y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol yn darparu cynigion manwl i roi’r blaenoriaethau ar waith o ran hyrwyddo gwell trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, gan gynnwys hyrwyddo gwell mynediad at wasanaethau a chyfleusterau allweddol.

Nick Bourne: Can the First Minister tell us what representations he, or the Welsh Assembly Government, has made in relation to a high-speed rail link between south Wales and London and what the response was to any such representations?

Nick Bourne: A all y Prif Weinidog ddweud wrthym pa sylwadau y mae ef, neu Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, wedi’u cyflwyno o ran y cyswllt rheilffordd cyflym rhwng de Cymru a Llundain a beth oedd yr ymateb i unrhyw sylwadau o’r fath?

The First Minister: I discussed the matter on the day that the Government made the announcement about Heathrow’s third runway. I spoke to Lord Adonis about the importance of the rail hub proposal, not the privately funded one by Arup and partners, but the one that is almost integral to the scheme because it should probably have happened when the fourth terminal was built at Heathrow. There should have been a point of entry to Heathrow for passengers travelling from south Wales and Bristol to Paddington—they should have been able to get off at Heathrow, or at least a mile from Heathrow, as the high-speed main line passes about two miles north of the northern airport perimeter. Now that the decision has been made that there will be a third runway and a sixth terminal, they have promised that pari passu with that there will be a connection with the south Wales main line. We have to make sure that that train does not stop at Bristol Parkway.

Y Prif Weinidog: Trafodais y mater y diwrnod y gwnaeth y Llywodraeth y cyhoeddiad ynglŷn â thrydedd redfa Heathrow. Siaredais â’r Arglwydd Adonis ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd y cynnig ar gyfer canolfan rheilffordd, nid yr un wedi’i gyllido’n breifat gan Arup a’r partneriaid, ond yr un sydd bron yn rhan annatod o’r cynllun oherwydd y dylai yn ôl pob tebyg fod wedi digwydd pan godwyd y bedwaredd derfynfa yn Heathrow. Dylai fod pwynt mynediad i Heathrow i deithwyr sy’n teithio o dde Cymru a Bryste i Paddington—dylent fod yn gallu disgyn yn Heathrow, neu o leiaf filltir o Heathrow, gan fod y brif reilffordd gyflym yn pasio tua dwy filltir i’r gogledd o derfyn gogleddol y maes awyr. A’r penderfyniad wedi cael ei wneud bellach y bydd trydedd redfa a chweched derfynfa, maent wedi addo y bydd ynghyd â hynny gyswllt â phrif reilffordd de Cymru. Rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr nad yw’r trên hwnnw’n stopio yn Bristol Parkway.

Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 14, OAQ(3)1650(FM), yn ôl.

The Presiding Officer: Question 14, OAQ(3)1650(FM), was withdrawn.

Support for Town Centres

Cefnogaeth i Ganol Trefi

Q15 Helen Mary Jones: Will the First Minister make a statement about Welsh Assembly Government support for town centres? OAQ(3)1669(FM)

C15 Helen Mary Jones: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am gefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i ganol trefi? OAQ(3)1669(FM)

The First Minister: The Welsh Assembly Government has always supported town-centre regeneration through town improvement and property development grants. The move to strategic regeneration areas will see this type of activity continue, albeit under a different name.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi cefnogi adfywio canol trefi erioed drwy grantiau gwella trefi a datblygu eiddo. Bydd y newid i ardaloedd adfywio strategol yn gweld y math hwn o weithgarwch yn parhau, er y bydd hynny o dan enw gwahanol.

Helen Mary Jones: You will be aware from your visits to the town that Llanelli town centre has suffered in the last 18 months due to the establishment of a major out-of-town development. Can you assure me today that any application that is made to the Assembly Government, either by Carmarthenshire County Council or any other interested body, will be treated as a matter of priority when it is received, so that we can start to get some of the regeneration resources into our town centre, where they are needed?

Helen Mary Jones: Byddwch yn ymwybodol ar sail eich ymweliadau â’r dref fod canol tref Llanelli wedi dioddef yn ystod y 18 mis diwethaf yn sgîl sefydlu datblygiad mawr ar gyrion y dref. A allwch fy sicrhau heddiw y bydd unrhyw gais a wneir i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, un ai gan Gyngor Sir Caerfyrddin neu gan unrhyw gorff arall sydd â buddiant, yn cael ei drin fel mater o flaenoriaeth pan ddaw i law, fel y gallwn ddechrau denu rhai o’r adnoddau adfywio i ganol ein tref, lle y mae eu hangen?

The First Minister: Llanelli and Ammanford have received investment in the present financial year from the town improvement scheme or the environmental improvement grants to try to ensure that we can sustain town centres, despite having out-of-town shopping centres. It is not easy because of the comparison between free and expensive parking or because new stores have a certain pizzazz and élan, and they may have cheap offers to get people used to the idea of shopping out of town and not in town. However, we have to try to make sure that our town centres remain viable. There have to be active traders who are willing to invest in the town and who will need a purpose for being in the town centre rather than in a cheaper location on the outskirts.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae Llanelli a Rhydaman wedi cael buddsoddiad yn y flwyddyn ariannol bresennol gan y cynllun gwella trefi neu’r grantiau gwelliannau amgylcheddol i geisio sicrhau ein bod yn gallu cynnal canol trefi, er bod gennym ganolfannau siopa ar y cyrion. Nid yw’n hawdd oherwydd y gymhariaeth rhwng parcio am ddim a pharcio costus neu am fod i siopau newydd ryw pizzazz ac asbri, ac efallai fod ganddynt gynigion rhad i ddenu pobl i arfer â’r syniad o siopa ar y cyrion yn hytrach nag yn y dref. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni geisio gwneud yn siŵr bod canol ein trefi’n parhau’n hyfyw. Rhaid cael masnachwyr gweithgar sy’n barod i fuddsoddi yn y dref, a bydd angen pwrpas arnynt dros fod yng nghanol y dref yn hytrach nag mewn lleoliad rhatach ar y cyrion.

Angela Burns: Many town centres are now no-go areas in the evenings due to a minority of people acting in a very anti-social way, particularly in reference to excessive drinking. Do you believe that it is possible to control this by a stricter use of licensing and planning laws? Will you let us know what discussions you have had with the police forces of Wales on how we can combat this really serious issue?

Angela Burns: Mae llawer o ganol trefi yn fannau na feiddiwn fynd iddynt fin nos erbyn hyn am fod lleiafrif o bobl yn ymddwyn mewn ffordd dra gwrthgymdeithasol, yn enwedig o ran yfed yn ormodol. A ydych yn credu ei bod yn bosibl rheoli hyn drwy ddefnyddio’r deddfau trwyddedu a chynllunio yn llymach? A ddywedwch wrthym pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u cynnal gyda heddluoedd Cymru ynglŷn â sut y gallwn fynd i’r afael â’r broblem wirioneddol ddifrifol hon?

The First Minister: As a Cardiff AM and as First Minister, I have had frequent discussions with South Wales Police. The management of the night-time economy has been a burning issue. South Wales Police, as regards the Cardiff area—I believe that this is also true for Swansea—has been very active in making sure that there is much tighter management of the night-time economy. The police have been remarkably successful in bringing down the number of flashpoint incidents such as those over who got into the taxi queue first when people are being thrown out of the pubs or clubs at 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. South Wales Police has taken a strict line with licensees who serve people when they are already inebriated, and, in general, I understand that it is a bit of a model for police forces elsewhere. So, when it comes to no-go areas, I think that you are probably talking about five years ago.

Y Prif Weinidog: A minnau’n AC dros Gaerdydd ac yn Brif Weinidog, yr wyf wedi cael trafodaethau mynych gyda Heddlu De Cymru. Mae rheoli economi’r nos wedi bod yn bwnc llosg. Mae Heddlu De Cymru, o ran ardal Caerdydd—credaf fod hyn yn wir hefyd am Abertawe—wedi bod yn weithgar iawn o ran sicrhau rheolaeth lawer llymach ar economi’r nos. Mae’r heddlu wedi bod yn hynod o lwyddiannus o ran gostwng nifer y digwyddiadau lle y ceir cythrwfl, megis y rhai ynglŷn â phwy oedd yn mynd i’r ciw tacsis yn gyntaf pan oedd pobl yn cael eu taflu allan o’r tafarnau neu’r clybiau am 2 a.m. neu 3 a.m. Mae Heddlu De Cymru wedi gweithredu’n llym yn erbyn dalwyr trwyddedau sy’n rhoi diod i bobl sydd eisoes yn feddw, ac, yn gyffredinol, deallaf ei fod yn dipyn o fodel i heddluoedd mewn mannau eraill. Felly, wrth sôn am ardaloedd na feiddiwn fynd iddynt, credaf eich bod mae’n debyg yn sôn am bum mlynedd yn ôl.

Y Llywydd: Diolch yn fawr i’r Prif Weinidog, yn enwedig am ein bod wedi gallu delio â phob cwestiwn a oedd yn weddill ar y rhestr heddiw.

The Presiding Officer: Thank you very much to the First Minister, especially because we managed to get through all the remaining questions that were on the list for today.

2.30 p.m.

 


Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes
Business Statement and Announcement

The Record

The Counsel General and Leader of the House (Carwyn Jones): I have one change to report to this week’s planned Government business. The statement by the Minister for Heritage on tourism issues, which was scheduled for today, has been postponed until 24 February. Business for the next three weeks is as set out in the business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Carwyn Jones): Mae gennyf un newid i’w gyhoeddi ym musnes arfaethedig y Llywodraeth ar gyfer yr wythnos hon. Mae’r datganiad gan y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth am faterion twristiaeth, a oedd wedi’i drefnu ar gyfer heddiw, wedi’i ohirio tan 24 Chwefror. Mae’r busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y mae wedi’i nodi yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, y gellir ei weld ymysg papurau’r agenda sydd ar gael i’r Aelodau’n electronig.

William Graham: Would the Leader of the House, in conjunction with the Minister for Rural Affairs, bring forward a statement on the use of metaldehyde? You will recall from your previous incarnation as the Minister for such affairs that it is a very useful and widely used pesticide, particularly in the removal of slugs and snails. However, you will also know that it is a grade 1 contaminant and that it is a criminal offence to introduce it into a watercourse. Apparently there has been increased use of this material and if it is not used properly, that could lead to its use being banned altogether, which would have an enormous effect on the yield of wheat in particular, which could be reduced by 30 per cent.

William Graham: A wnaiff Arweinydd y Tŷ, ar y cyd â’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig, gyflwyno datganiad am ddefnyddio metaldehyd? Byddwch yn cofio yn sgîl eich swydd flaenorol fel Gweinidog dros faterion o’r fath ei fod yn blaleiddiad defnyddiol iawn a ddefnyddir yn helaeth, yn enwedig wrth gael gwared â gwlithod a malwod. Fodd bynnag, byddwch hefyd yn gwybod ei fod yn halogydd gradd 1 a’i bod yn drosedd ei roi mewn cwrs dŵr. Mae’n debyg bod y deunydd hwn wedi cael ei ddefnyddio fwyfwy, ac os na chaiff ei ddefnyddio’n briodol, gallai hynny arwain at ei wahardd yn gyfan gwbl, a fyddai’n cael effaith anferth ar gynhyrchu gwenith yn arbennig, gan beri lleihad o 30 y cant, o bosibl.

Carwyn Jones: That is not a matter for a statement. There is sometimes a trade-off between the effectiveness of chemicals for treating, for example, sheep scab, and the serious pollution that can occur if the chemical is misused and ends up in the watercourses. Nevertheless, this matter would be best pursued with the appropriate Minister in order to get the answers that you require.

Carwyn Jones: Nid yw hwnnw’n fater ar gyfer datganiad. Weithiau, bydd angen cynnal cydbwysedd rhwng effeithiolrwydd cemegau i drin, er enghraifft, y clafr, a’r llygredd difrifol a all ddigwydd os caiff y cemegyn ei gamddefnyddio ac yntau’n mynd i gwrs dŵr. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n well codi’r mater hwn gyda’r Gweinidog priodol er mwyn cael yr atebion a ddymunwch.

Eleanor Burnham: I know that this has been mentioned by our colleague Lorraine Barrett, but I am concerned about it. Could you advise us as to whether we could have a fully fledged debate, statement or something else on Ofcom’s throwing away, almost, of what ITV has to produce in news and non-news programming and signage for deaf people? The whole combination of events and Ofcom’s cavalier attitude towards us in Wales is to be regretted. The allowing of ITV to disregard us in these three areas is an important issue. Could you advise us as to whether the Government could bring forward a further debate, statement or whatever you feel would be appropriate on this matter?

Eleanor Burnham: Gwn fod ein cyd-Aelod Lorraine Barrett wedi sôn am hyn, ond yr wyf yn pryderu am y mater. A allech ddweud wrthym a fyddai’n bosibl cael dadl lawn, datganiad neu rywbeth arall am Ofcom yn cael gwared, bron, ar yr hyn y mae’n rhaid i ITV ei ddarparu o ran rhaglenni newyddion a rhaglenni eraill ac iaith arwyddion i bobl fyddar? Mae’r holl gyfuniad o ddigwyddiadau ac agwedd ddi-hid Ofcom tuag atom yng Nghymru’n resynus. Mae gadael i ITV ein diystyru yn y tri maes hyn yn fater pwysig. A allech ddweud wrthym a allai’r Llywodraeth gynnal trafodaeth bellach, datganiad neu beth bynnag a fyddai’n briodol yn eich barn chi ynghylch y mater hwn?

Carwyn Jones: The Minister for Heritage has contacted Ofcom, and his views have been made very clear, as have those of the Assembly Government, namely that we wish to see diversity in the provision of news in Wales and that the Government would resist any downgrading of ITV Wales, particularly, but not exclusively, in its news service. The Minister for Heritage has made that clear on several occasions, and we trust that that message is being received by those who are responsible for running ITV Wales.

Carwyn Jones: Mae’r Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth wedi cysylltu ag Ofcom, ac mae wedi cyfleu ei farn yn glir iawn, yn ogystal â barn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, sef ein bod yn dymuno gweld amrywiaeth yn narpariaeth newyddion yng Nghymru ac y byddai’r Llywodraeth yn gwrthwynebu unrhyw israddio i ITV Cymru, yn enwedig, ond nid yn unig, o ran ei wasanaeth newyddion. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth wedi pwysleisio hynny sawl gwaith, ac yr ydym yn ffyddiog bod y neges honno’n cyrraedd y rhai sy’n gyfrifol am redeg ITV Cymru.

Gareth Jones: Mae tywydd oer y gaeaf hwn wedi ein hatgoffa o bwysigrwydd cynllunio’n ofalus ar gyfer cadw ein priffyrdd a’n rheilffyrdd ar agor, yn enwedig mewn cyfnod economaidd anodd. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunech fod Adran yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ynghyd ag adrannau priffyrdd ein hawdurdodau lleol i’w llongyfarch am y modd iddynt ymateb i’r tywydd eithafol hwn, fel nad ydym wedi gweld yr un colledion ariannol a gafwyd mewn rhannau o Loegr—cost o dros £1 biliwn, hyd y deallaf. Dim ond inni gael y cyfle, mae’n amlwg y gallwn wneud rhai pethau’n well yng Nghymru.

Gareth Jones: The cold weather this winter has reminded us of the importance of careful planning to keep our highways and railways open, particularly during difficult economic times. I am sure that you would agree that the Deputy First Minister’s Department for the Economy and Transport along with the highways departments of our local authorities are to be congratulated on the way in which they have responded to this extreme weather, so that we have not sustained the same financial losses as those seen in parts of England—at a cost of more than £1 billion, I understand. Clearly, we can do some things better in Wales if we are only given the chance.

O ystyried effeithiau’r tywydd oer ar unigolion bregus ein cymunedau, mae elusen genedlaethol wedi cyfrifo y gallem weld dros 100 o farwolaethau ychwanegol yn etholaethau Aberconwy, Gorllewin Clwyd a Dwyfor Meirionnydd, a thros 1,500 o farwolaethau ar draws Cymru gyfan o ganlyniad i’r oerfel. Mae teulu cyffredin heddiw yn talu £517 yn fwy am nwy a £236 yn fwy am drydan na phum mlynedd yn ôl, tra bod elw cwmnïau ynni’r Deyrnas Unedig wedi codi dros 500 y cant. A fyddai modd i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad roi mwy o bwysau ar San Steffan i helpu pobl i ymdopi gyda chost gwresogi eu cartrefi, er enghraifft drwy ostwng dros dro y dreth ar werth ar gostau gwresogi neu drwy weithredu treth annisgwyl ar elw’r cwmnïau ynni a fyddai’n helpu’r rhai hynny a effeithir gan dlodi tanwydd? A fyddai modd inni gynnal dadl am yr holl bosibiliadau a chyfleu ein pryderon a’n hawgrymiadau i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig?

Given the impact of the cold weather on vulnerable individuals in our communities, a national charity has calculated that we could see more than 100 additional deaths in the constituencies of Aberconwy, Clwyd West, and Dwyfor Meirionnydd, with more than 1,500 winter deaths throughout Wales as whole because of the cold. An average family today pays £517 more for their gas and £236 more for their electricity than five years ago, while the profits of the UK’s energy companies have increased more than 500 per cent. Would it be possible for the Assembly Government to put more pressure on Westminster to help people to meet the costs of heating their homes, for instance by temporarily reducing the value-added tax on heating costs or by operating a windfall tax on the profits of energy companies, which would help those affected by fuel poverty? Would it be possible for us to hold a debate on the possibilities and to express our concerns and suggestions to the UK Government?

Carwyn Jones: Materion i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yw’r rhain, ond, wedi dweud hynny, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cymryd tlodi tanwydd o ddifrif. Mae hwn yn fater a gododd yn weddol ddiweddar, ond bu’n broblem ers blynyddoedd. Yr wyf yn cofio tua 20 mlynedd yn ôl pan geisiodd Margaret Thatcher dorri yn ôl ar daliadau i’r henoed, a gorfu iddi newid ei meddwl yn gyflym iawn. Felly, nid yw’n fater newydd. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn edrych ar ffyrdd o helpu pobl yn y sefyllfa hon. Rhoddwyd taliadau i’r henoed yng Nghymru i’w helpu gyda chostau tanwydd. Ar ben hynny, fel Llywodraeth, yr ydym yn edrych ar ba ffyrdd y gallwn helpu pobl, yn enwedig o ystyried y tywydd a gawsom. Yr wyf yn ymuno â chi i longyfarch awdurdodau Cymru ar y ffordd maent wedi ymateb i’r eira. Y broblem sydd gennym yng Nghymru yw’r ffaith fod eira yn rhywbeth gweddol anarferol, ac nad yw pobl yn cael ymarfer i ymdrin ag eira fel y byddent o bosibl yn ei gael mewn gwledydd eraill. Hefyd, a ddylem fuddsoddi mewn peiriannau i ddelio gydag eira pan mae’n digwydd mor anarferol? O ystyried hynny oll, mae Cymru wedi ymdopi’n dda iawn neithiwr a’r bore yma.

 

Carwyn Jones: These are matters for the UK Government. However, having said that, the Assembly Government takes fuel poverty seriously. This is an issue that has arisen fairly recently, but is has been a problem for years. I remember Margaret Thatcher trying to make cuts to payments for the elderly, around 20 years ago, and she was forced to change her mind pretty quickly. Therefore, it is not a new issue. The Government is considering ways of helping people in this situation. Payments have been made to the elderly in Wales to help them with their fuel costs. On top of that, as a Government, we are considering ways in which we could help people, particularly given the weather that we have had. I join you in congratulating the authorities of Wales on the way in which they have responded to the snow. The problem that we have in Wales is that we get snow relatively infrequently, and so people are not well practised at dealing with it, as people might be in other countries. In addition, should we invest in machinery to tackle the snow if it happens so infrequently? Considering all that, Wales seems to have coped very well last night and this morning.

Jonathan Morgan: Will the Leader of the House schedule a debate in Government time to discuss how local health boards have spent their drugs budget? In the three years from 2005 to 2008, local health boards in Wales underspent by more than £80 million. In Cardiff, the underspend was £8.4 million, and, shockingly, in Swansea the underspend was £17.4 million at a time when it refused every request for the kidney cancer drug, Sutent. This is a huge issue when you look at how drug money has been spent by local health boards in Wales, or, in this case, how it has not been spent. Bearing in mind the numbers of constituents that we all know of who have struggled to get local health boards to pay for a particular treatment, we need an urgent debate about this in Government time. I would like a commitment from the Leader of the House to hold such a debate as quickly as possible.

Jonathan Morgan: A wnaiff Arweinydd y Tŷ drefnu dadl yn amser y Llywodraeth i drafod sut y mae byrddau iechyd lleol wedi gwario eu cyllideb cyffuriau? Yn y tair blynedd o 2005 i 2008, bu tanwariant o dros £80 miliwn gan fyrddau iechyd lleol Cymru. Yng Nghaerdydd, yr oedd y tanwario’n £8.4 miliwn, ac, yn arswydus, yn Abertawe yr oedd y tanwario’n £17.4 miliwn a’r bwrdd iechyd ar y pryd yn gwrthod pob cais am gyffur canser yr arennau, Sutent. Mae hwn yn fater enfawr wrth ystyried sut y mae byrddau iechyd lleol Cymru wedi gwario arian cyffuriau, neu yn yr achos hwn, sut nad ydynt wedi’i wario. Ac ystyried nifer yr etholwyr yr ydym oll yn eu hadnabod sydd wedi’i chael yn anodd perswadio byrddau iechyd lleol i dalu am driniaeth benodol, mae arnom angen trafodaeth frys am hyn yn amser y Llywodraeth. Hoffwn gael ymrwymiad gan Arweinydd y Tŷ y bydd yn cynnal trafodaeth o’r fath cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl.

Carwyn Jones: As you know, the Minister for Health and Social Services takes a strong personal interest in the issue of drug availability, and she has made her views known via decisions taken recently. The points that you make are points that can be made to the Minister in questions and via correspondence. That is the way in which matters can be raised with her on such issues.

Carwyn Jones: Fel y gwyddoch, mae gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ddiddordeb personol cryf o ran i ba raddau y mae cyffuriau ar gael, ac mae hi wedi lleisio’i barn drwy benderfyniadau a wnaethpwyd yn ddiweddar. Mae’r pwyntiau a wnewch yn bwyntiau y gellir eu gwneud gerbron y Gweinidog mewn cwestiynau a thrwy ohebiaeth. Dyna’r ffordd i godi pethau gyda hi ynghylch materion o’r fath.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Is it possible to have a statement from the Minister for Rural Affairs on the recent European pesticides directive, which has a great potential impact on the horticulture industry as well as the arable industry in Wales? There are two aspects that the Government needs to address: one is the support that the Government can offer those sectors to understand what alternatives are available and the supposed impacts on human health of the pesticides that are currently used in the sector. Secondly, what measures has the Welsh Assembly Government taken to address the concerns of the industry in Wales in connection with the wider concerns across the United Kingdom?

Andrew R.T. Davies: A fyddai modd cael datganiad gan y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig am y gyfarwyddeb plaleiddiaid Ewropeaidd yn ddiweddar, a allai gael effaith fawr ar y diwydiant garddwriaeth yn ogystal â’r diwydiant âr yng Nghymru? Mae angen i’r Llywodraeth fynd i’r afael â dwy agwedd ar hyn: un yw’r gefnogaeth y gall y Llywodraeth ei chynnig i’r sectorau hynny i ddeall pa ddewisiadau eraill sydd ar gael, ac effaith honedig y plaleiddiaid a ddefnyddir ar hyn o bryd yn y sector ar iechyd pobl. Yn ail, pa fesurau y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi’u cymryd i fynd i’r afael â phryderon y diwydiant yng Nghymru yng nghyswllt y pryderon ehangach ledled y Deyrnas Unedig?

Carwyn Jones: Again, these are matters that can be raised with the Minister directly, but it has always been the case that we as a Government have sought to influence European policy at an early stage. We have an office in Brussels, and for some years we have had a full-time official there who deals purely with agricultural issues. That situation did not exist before devolution, and it shows the representation that Wales now has at a European level.

Carwyn Jones: Eto, mae’r rhain yn faterion y gellir eu codi gyda’r Gweinidog yn uniongyrchol, ond mae wastad wedi bod yn wir ein bod ni fel Llywodraeth wedi ceisio dylanwadu’n gynnar ar bolisi Ewropeaidd. Mae gennym swyddfa ym Mrwsel, ac ers rhai blynyddoedd mae gennym swyddog llawnamser yno sy’n delio â materion amaethyddol yn unig. Nid oedd y sefyllfa honno’n bodoli cyn datganoli, ac mae’n dangos y gynrychiolaeth sydd gan Gymru heddiw ar lefel Ewropeaidd.

There are always concerns in the industry when new directives appear, and I am sure that the industry will make those concerns known to the Minister, who can respond accordingly.

Bydd pryderon yn y diwydiant bob tro y bydd cyfarwyddebau newydd yn ymddangos, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y diwydiant yn rhoi gwybod i’r Gweinidog am y pryderon hynny, fel y gall ymateb yn briodol.

Nick Bourne: Turning or thoughts to warmer weather, as the Leader of the House will probably be aware, the Brecon Jazz Festival has been cancelled this year. This is a matter of great concern as it will have a severe impact on the mid-Wales economy. There is hope of bringing it back for 2010. Could the Minister for Heritage make a written statement on these issues and on how he could help in using his offices to bring people together and perhaps offer marketing and promotional support? The festival is vital to the mid-Wales economy.

Nick Bourne: O feddwl am dywydd cynhesach, fel y bydd Arweinydd y Tŷ yn gwybod, mae’n debyg, mae Gŵyl Jazz Aberhonddu wedi’i chanslo eleni. Mae hyn yn destun pryder mawr, gan y caiff effaith ddifrifol ar economi’r canolbarth. Gobeithir y gellir ei chynnal unwaith eto yn 2010. A allai’r Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth wneud datganiad ysgrifenedig am y materion hyn ac am sut y gallai ef helpu drwy ddefnyddio’i ddylanwad i ddod â phobl at ei gilydd, a chynnig cymorth o ran marchnata a hyrwyddo, efallai? Mae’r ŵyl yn hollbwysig i economi’r canolbarth.

2.40 p.m.

 

Carwyn Jones: I will ask the Minister to consider that. You are right to point out that the Brecon Jazz Festival has a venerable history in the town. It is one of the most recognised events and is certainly one of the biggest jazz festivals in the world. It is sad that it will not take place this year, but nevertheless there are encouraging signs with regard to next year. We all hope that the festival will be able to return to the town to provide a boost not just for jazz itself as a form of music, but for the town and the wider local economy.

Carwyn Jones: Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ystyried hynny. Yr ydych yn gywir pan ddywedwch fod gan Ŵyl Jazz Aberhonddu hanes hybarch yn y dref. Mae’n un o’i digwyddiadau enwocaf ac mae’n sicr yn un o brif wyliau jazz y byd. Mae’n drist na chaiff ei chynnal eleni, ond serch hynny, mae arwyddion calonogol o ran y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr ydym oll yn gobeithio y gall yr ŵyl ddychwelyd i’r dref i roi hwb, nid yn unig i gerddoriaeth jazz, ond i’r dref a’r economi leol ehangach.

Datganiad am Ysgolion yr Unfed Ganrif ar Hugain
Statement on Twenty-first Century Schools

The Record

The Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills (Jane Hutt): As part of the 'One Wales’ agenda, the Government made a commitment to deliver twenty-first century schools. We said then that,

Y Gweinidog dros Blant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau (Jane Hutt): Fel rhan o agenda 'Cymru’n Un’, gwnaeth y Llywodraeth ymrwymiad i ddarparu ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ar y pryd, dywedasom,

'Schools need to be fit for purpose and properly funded, with highly professional and motivated staff. Children must be able to get the support and resources they need, and follow a curriculum which inspires and encourages achievement.’

'Mae angen i ysgolion fod yn addas i’r diben ac wedi’u cyllido’n iawn, gyda staff cwbl broffesiynol ac ymrwymedig. Rhaid i blant allu cael y cymorth a’r adnoddau sydd eu hangen arnynt, a dilyn cwricwlwm sy’n ysbrydoli ac yn hyrwyddo cyrhaeddiad.’

'One Wales’ also contains a commitment to

Mae 'Cymru’n Un’ hefyd yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i

'continue a major capital investment programme to upgrade school buildings’.

'barhau â rhaglen buddsoddi cyfalaf bwysig i wella adeiladau ysgol, gan ddarparu mwy o arian nag a wnaed yn ystod y pedair blynedd diwethaf’.

My statement today will focus on these commitments and provide an update on how we will deliver on them.

Bydd fy natganiad heddiw’n canolbwyntio ar yr ymrwymiadau hyn, ac yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf o ran sut y byddwn yn eu cyflawni.

Schools in Wales need to be places that inspire our young people: places that can accommodate twenty-first century technology and be adapted to meet the changing needs of learners in a rapidly developing knowledge economy. Schools also need to be resources for their local communities and be inclusive in their approach and they need to work seamlessly and coherently with providers of education and training beyond the age of 16. To ensure delivery of this vision, I am taking forward a long-term, strategic capital investment plan.

Mae angen i ysgolion Cymru fod yn fannau sy’n ysbrydoli ein pobl ifanc: mannau a all gynnwys technoleg yr unfed ganrif ar hugain ac y gellir eu haddasu i ddiwallu anghenion dysgwyr, anghenion sy’n newid, mewn economi wybodaeth sy’n datblygu’n gyflym. Yn ogystal mae angen i ysgolion fod yn adnoddau ar gyfer eu cymunedau lleol a bod yn gynhwysol o ran eu dulliau, ac mae angen iddynt weithio’n ddi-dor ac yn gydlynol gyda darparwyr addysg a hyfforddiant y tu hwnt i 16 oed. I sicrhau y caiff y weledigaeth hon ei gwireddu, yr wyf yn rhoi cynllun buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol, hirdymor ar waith.

The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills capital investment plan will impact on every school, college and university in Wales. It needs to be seen alongside the considerable efforts that are being made at the local level to manage surplus school places through robust and strategic school reorganisation proposals. The plan will also run alongside developments to transform post-16 education in Wales. I will review the responses to our post-16 transformation consultation and, where the emerging plans require capital investment, I will look to integrate demand with the schools programme.

Bydd cynllun buddsoddi cyfalaf yr Adran Plant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau yn effeithio ar bob ysgol, coleg a phrifysgol yng Nghymru. Mae angen edrych arno ochr yn ochr â’r ymdrech sylweddol sy’n cael ei gwneud ar y lefel leol i reoli lleoedd gwag mewn ysgolion drwy gynigion cadarn a strategol i ad-drefnu ysgolion. Bydd y cynllun hefyd yn rhedeg ochr yn ochr â datblygiadau i drawsnewid addysg ôl-16 yng Nghymru. Byddaf yn adolygu’r ymatebion i’n hymgynghoriad gweddnewid ôl-16, a phan fydd y cynlluniau newydd yn peri bod angen buddsoddi cyfalaf, byddaf yn ceisio integreiddio’r galw â’r rhaglen ysgolion.

I have agreed that the Welsh Local Government Association and the Welsh Assembly Government will form a joint board to oversee the planning process. Already the Welsh Assembly Government, local authorities, colleges and dioceses currently invest around £0.25 billion a year. Together we will plan for the long term and seek to rebuild or refurbish every school in Wales.

Yr wyf wedi cytuno y bydd Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n ffurfio bwrdd ar y cyd i oruchwylio’r broses gynllunio. Ar hyn o bryd, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, awdurdodau lleol, colegau ac esgobaethau’n buddsoddi tua £0.25 biliwn y flwyddyn. Gyda’n gilydd, byddwn yn cynllunio ar gyfer y tymor hir ac yn ceisio ailadeiladu neu adnewyddu pob ysgol yng Nghymru.

The arrangements that I will put in place will allow more effective strategic and asset planning, providing opportunities for joining up funding from DCELLS, local authorities and EU investment with other public services for the creation of facilities for the whole community. Through our work on spatial planning, discussions have begun between the Assembly Government, local authorities, NHS bodies, housing associations, police and other public bodies to identify publicly owned land for potential co-development.

Bydd y trefniadau a roddir ar waith gennyf yn caniatáu cynllunio strategol a chynllunio asedau’n fwy effeithiol, gan ddarparu cyfleoedd i gyfuno cyllid gan DCELLS, awdurdodau lleol a buddsoddiad yr UE gyda gwasanaethau lleol eraill i greu cyfleusterau i’r gymuned gyfan. Drwy ein gwaith ar gynllunio gofodol, mae trafodaethau wedi dechrau rhwng Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, awdurdodau lleol, cyrff y GIG, cymdeithasau tai, yr heddlu a chyrff cyhoeddus eraill i ganfod tir sydd mewn perchenogaeth gyhoeddus y mae’n bosibl ei ddatblygu ar y cyd.

The investment plan seeks to tackle the significant capital investment issues encompassing delivery of investment across all our schools. Our finite capital resources will be deployed in sequence according to need and readiness. I will make an announcement in early March on the first tranche of 2009-10 twenty-first century school capital allocations as the next step in the transition towards a more strategically focused allocation process.

Bydd y cynllun buddsoddi’n ceisio mynd i’r afael â’r materion buddsoddi cyfalaf sylweddol sy’n cwmpasu’r buddsoddi yn ein hysgolion i gyd. Defnyddir ein hadnoddau cyfalaf penodol mewn trefn yn unol ag anghenion a pharodrwydd. Gwnaf gyhoeddiad ddechrau mis Mawrth ynghylch cyfran gyntaf dyraniadau cyfalaf ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain 2009-10 fel cam nesaf y trawsnewidiad tuag at broses ddyrannu fwy strategol.

We will build on the Government’s excellent track record of investment in schools. In the period 2004-05 to 2007-08 £667 million was invested in school buildings. Since 2002, 1,931 projects have received Assembly Government funding support through the school buildings improvement grant. That investment has enabled 107 new schools to be built in Wales. Funding during the lifetime of this Assembly will see a total investment of £730 million being realised.

Byddwn yn adeiladu ar record ragorol y Llywodraeth o fuddsoddi mewn ysgolion. Yn y cyfnod o 2004-05 i 2007-08, buddsoddwyd £667 miliwn mewn adeiladau ysgolion. Ers 2002, mae 1,931 o brosiectau wedi cael cymorth ariannol gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad drwy’r grant gwella adeiladau ysgolion. Mae’r buddsoddiad hwnnw wedi galluogi adeiladu 107 o ysgolion newydd yng Nghymru. Yn ystod oes y Cynulliad hwn, bydd cyfanswm o £730 miliwn wedi’i fuddsoddi.

Our work has begun. A group of senior officers and officials from local authorities and the Welsh Assembly Government are now working to take forward the twenty-first century schools programme and have started planning the transition towards a fully fledged strategic programme of investment across education in Wales. That will involve a significant change, seeing a move away from what is now a formula-based process to a strategic investment plan that is targeted to need.

Mae ein gwaith wedi dechrau. Mae grŵp o uwch-swyddogion a swyddogion awdurdodau lleol a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn gweithio i fwrw ymlaen â rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, ac wedi dechrau cynllunio’r trawsnewid tuag at raglen strategol lawn o fuddsoddi ar draws addysg yng Nghymru. Bydd hynny’n golygu newid sylweddol, gan gynnwys symud oddi wrth broses sy’n seiliedig ar fformiwla ar hyn o bryd at gynllun buddsoddi strategol sydd wedi’i dargedu at anghenion.

This approach will be proactive, enabling all local authorities to develop and implement, in conjunction with their partners, their investment schemes for twenty-first century schools. I am overseeing our work to ensure that investment in schools and colleges integrates across public services to maximise value and to make community-focused schools a reality. To support the development of the plan, we will develop a programme of expert support for local authorities and colleges to draw on, to take their plans forward, to develop compelling business cases, and to negotiate the best deals to get the most out of their investment.

Byddwn yn mynd ati’n rhagweithiol, gan alluogi pob awdurdod lleol i ddatblygu ei gynlluniau buddsoddi ar gyfer ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain a’u rhoi ar waith ar y cyd â’i bartneriaid. Yr wyf yn goruchwylio’n gwaith i sicrhau bod y buddsoddi mewn ysgolion a cholegau’n cael ei integreiddio ar draws gwasanaethau cyhoeddus er mwyn sicrhau’r gwerth mwyaf ac er mwyn cael ysgolion sydd yn wir yn ganolbwynt i’r gymuned. I gefnogi datblygiad y cynllun, byddwn yn datblygu rhaglen o gymorth arbenigol y gall awdurdodau lleol a cholegau fanteisio arni, er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â’u cynlluniau, datblygu dadleuon busnes sy’n argyhoeddi, a negodi’r cytundebau gorau er mwyn i’w buddsoddiad ddwyn ffrwyth hyd yr eithaf.

The current recession particularly affects the construction industry, and the role of public investment has never been more important in supporting the Welsh economy. I have brought forward capital to increase the level of small-scale capital building works this year, supporting local Welsh businesses. However, we face a major challenge to modernise and make the best use of the education estate.

Mae’r dirwasgiad presennol yn effeithio’n benodol ar y diwydiant adeiladu, ac ni fu rôl bwysicach erioed i fuddsoddi cyhoeddus o ran cefnogi economi Cymru. Yr wyf wedi darparu cyfalaf fel y gellir gwneud mwy o waith adeiladu cyfalaf ar raddfa fach eleni, gan gefnogi busnesau lleol Cymru. Serch hynny, yr ydym yn wynebu her fawr i foderneiddio’r ystâd addysg a’i defnyddio yn y ffordd orau..

I was glad last year to secure the support of the Cabinet’s committee on capital investment for an additional £29 million for investment in our schools. With that resource, I am able to help Newport and Wrexham to accelerate their successful secondary schools programmes, and support the strategic use of Welsh public capital investment to deliver joined-up services. Newport and Wrexham are integrating their schools programmes with leisure facilities, making best use of the available resources. I am also pleased to provide additional investment to support the community campus in Blaenavon—a school with a primary health centre and leisure facilities integrated on one site. These are good examples of forward-thinking investment to tackle the needs of the education system. It is only a start, however. The need for investment reaches across all our schools, colleges and universities, and that will take many years.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o sicrhau cefnogaeth pwyllgor y Cabinet y llynedd ar gyfer buddsoddi £29 miliwn o gyfalaf ychwanegol yn ein hysgolion. Gyda’r adnodd hwnnw, gallaf gynorthwyo Casnewydd a Wrecsam i gyflymu eu rhaglenni llwyddiannus i godi ysgolion uwchradd, a chefnogi defnyddio buddsoddiad cyfalaf cyhoeddus Cymru mewn ffordd strategol er mwyn sicrhau gwasanaethau cydgysylltiedig. Mae Casnewydd a Wrecsam yn integreiddio’u rhaglenni ysgolion â chyfleusterau hamdden, gan ddefnyddio’r adnoddau sydd ar gael i’r eithaf. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch o ddarparu buddsoddiad ychwanegol i gefnogi’r campws cymunedol ym Mlaenafon—ysgol a chanolfan iechyd sylfaenol a chyfleusterau hamdden wedi’u cyfuno ar un safle. Mae’r rhain yn enghreifftiau da o fuddsoddi sy’n edrych tua’r dyfodol er mwyn mynd i’r afael ag anghenion y system addysg. Fodd bynnag, megis dechrau yw hyn. Mae angen buddsoddi ym mhob un o’n hysgolion, ein colegau a’n prifysgolion, a bydd angen blynyddoedd lawer er mwyn gwneud hynny.

As public finances tighten, it is increasingly important that we make best use of the resources that we have, working across local authority boundaries. We must bring together services to deliver more for less, as in the Blaenavon community campus. This programme will adopt a proactive approach, help to raise the standard of investment, plan over a longer term, and enable us to achieve the delivery of twenty-first century schools across Wales.

Wrth i’r pwrs cyhoeddus grebachu, mae’n fwyfwy pwysig inni ddefnyddio’r adnoddau sydd gennym i’r eithaf, gan weithio ar draws ffiniau awdurdodau lleol. Rhaid inni ddwyn gwasanaethau at ei gilydd er mwyn darparu mwy am lai o arian, fel y gwneir ar gampws cymunedol Blaenafon. Bydd y rhaglen hon yn mynd ati mewn ffordd ragweithiol, yn helpu i godi safon y buddsoddi, yn cynllunio dros gyfnod hwy, ac yn ein galluogi i sicrhau ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain ledled Cymru.

Andrew R.T. Davies: In the brief time for which I have been education spokesperson for my party, I have noted that one issue that has transfixed Assembly Members, communities, governors and pupils is the need to update their classrooms and schools. Sadly, we all know of the lamentable position in which many schools find themselves. Indeed, many a time I have quoted David Reynolds’s comment to the Rural Development Sub-committee that we suddenly find ourselves with a financially impoverished education system. We can place the blame or pass judgment on previous Assembly Governments because, sadly, it failed to invest in our school infrastructure. It made promises and then broke them. Your predecessor, Jane Davidson, promised much and then had to revise many of her promises. I hope that this statement of your intentions will change the direction of the Assembly Government’s engagement, so that it is prepared to work with local authorities and schools to develop a comprehensive strategy for our schools in the twenty-first century. Schools are the bedrock on which the educational experience that our students need is delivered.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Yn y cyfnod byr yr wyf wedi bod yn llefarydd addysg dros fy mhlaid, yr wyf wedi sylwi mai un o’r materion sydd wedi hoelio sylw Aelodau’r Cynulliad, cymunedau, llywodraethwyr a disgyblion yw bod angen diweddaru eu hystafelloedd dosbarth a’u hysgolion. Yn anffodus, gwyddom oll am y sefyllfa druenus y mae llawer o ysgolion yn eu cael eu hunain ynddi. Yn wir, yr wyf wedi dyfynnu sylw David Reynolds droeon yn yr Is-bwyllgor Datblygu Gwledig ein bod yn sydyn yn gweld bod gennym system addysg sy’n dlawd o ran adnoddau ariannol. Gallwn feio neu farnu Llywodraethau’r Cynulliad yn y gorffennol oherwydd, yn anffodus, methodd fuddsoddi yn seilwaith ein hysgolion. Gwnaeth addewidion ac wedyn eu torri. Addawodd eich rhagflaenydd, Jane Davidson, lawer ac wedyn, bu’n rhaid iddi ddiwygio llawer o’u haddewidion. Gobeithio y bydd y datganiad hwn o’ch bwriadau’n newid cyfeiriad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, o ran sut y mae’n ymgysylltu â phobl, ac y bydd yn barod i weithio ag awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion er mwyn datblygu strategaeth gynhwysfawr i’n hysgolion yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ysgolion yw conglfaen y profiad addysgol y mae ei angen ar ein myfyrwyr.

You will have my support for any initiatives that you propose to move the agenda forward and change the lamentable engagement seen from the Welsh Assembly Government under your predecessor’s leadership and, until today, under yours. Strategic direction was lacking, as pointed out by Estyn, and this statement seeks to address that.

Cewch gefnogaeth gennyf ar gyfer unrhyw gynlluniau a gynigiwch i symud yr agenda yn ei blaen ac i newid ymagwedd druenus Llywodraeth y Cynulliad dan arweiniad eich rhagflaenydd, a, than heddiw, dan eich arweiniad chithau. Yr oedd diffyg cyfeiriad strategol, fel y pwysleisiodd Estyn, ac mae’r datganiad hwn yn ceisio mynd i’r afael â hynny.

I have key questions to ask you about this statement. Will you confirm your commitment to sixth-form provision in secondary schools in light of the recent 7 per cent budget cut that your Government has forced on Newport City Council? The announcement was made only in the last few days, when Newport council has already set its budget for sixth forms. This hardly shows meaningful engagement with local government, and yet here you are, talking about setting up a board with the Welsh Local Government Association to take these issues forward. I would be interested to hear how the board will operate, how it will function, and whether it will have the teeth to regulate and promote this agenda.

Mae gennyf gwestiynau allweddol i’w gofyn ichi am y datganiad hwn. A wnewch gadarnhau eich ymrwymiad i ddarpariaeth y chweched dosbarth mewn ysgolion uwchradd ac ystyried bod eich Llywodraeth wedi  gorfodi Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd i docio 7 y cant oddi ar ei gyllideb yn ddiweddar? Ni  chafwyd yr adroddiad tan ychydig ddiwrnodau’n ôl, ac mae cyngor Casnewydd eisoes wedi pennu ei gyllideb ar gyfer y chweched dosbarth. Prin bod hyn yn dangos ymagwedd ystyrlon at ymwneud â llywodraeth leol, ac eto i gyd, dyma chi’n sôn am sefydlu bwrdd ar y cyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â’r materion hyn. Byddai’n dda gennyf glywed sut y bydd y bwrdd yn gweithredu, sut y bydd yn gweithio, ac a fydd ganddo’r dannedd i reoleiddio a hybu’r agenda hon.

Your statement talks about seeking to rebuild and refurbish every school in Wales. That is a noble commitment, and if we wait long enough, I dare say that it might actually be delivered. However, could you give us a timeframe for that, given that such timeframes have slipped in the past? You will find the Welsh Conservatives very supportive of those bold intentions, but people need clarity and consistency to know where they are going with this agenda.

Mae eich datganiad yn sôn am geisio ailadeiladu ac adnewyddu pob ysgol yng Nghymru. Mae hwnnw’n ymrwymiad clodwiw, ac os disgwyliwn yn ddigon hir, mae’n siŵr y gellid yn wir gyflawni hynny. Fodd bynnag, a allech roi amserlen inni ar gyfer hynny, o gofio bod amserlenni o’r fath wedi llithro yn y gorffennol? Gwelwch y bydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn gefnogol iawn i’r bwriadau dewr hynny, ond mae angen eglurder a chysondeb ar bobl er mwyn iddynt wybod i ble y mae’r agenda hon yn eu tywys.

2.50 p.m.

 

Moving forward to the way in which you will orchestrate the roll-out of the redevelopment of schools, you say that it will happen in a sequence according to need and readiness. Can you highlight the key indicators identifying need? Will it be a social need or will it be the build requirement? Using Cowbridge school as an example, the buildings have fallen into a lamentable state. We are now seeing the diggers move into that school, which is to be applauded, but, a little further down the road in Llantwit Major Comprehensive School, the principal, whom I met on Friday, can see no improvement in his situation as he tries to move his redevelopment projects forward. He believes that they have fallen off the radar altogether. Therefore, I would be very interested to hear how you would categorise need. Will it be a social requirement or a build requirement?  When you talk about calibrating the need, will it be the need of the community, of the catchment area of the school, or of the wider local education authority area that will have to tick the boxes for a school to move up the pecking order for investment? That is critical in understanding how this order of development will progress.

A symud ymlaen at y ffordd y byddwch yn trefnu i ledaenu’r rhaglen ailddatblygu ysgolion, dywedwch y dilynir trefn a seilir ar angen a pharodrwydd. A allwch ddweud pa ddangosyddion allweddol a fydd yn pennu’r angen? Ai angen cymdeithasol ynteu’r gofyniad o ran adeiladu a fydd yn penderfynu? Gan gyfeirio at ysgol y Bont-faen yn enghraifft, mae’r adeiladau mewn cyflwr truenus. Mae’r peiriannau cloddio yn awr yn symud i mewn i’r ysgol honno, ac mae hynny i’w groesawu, ond, nid nepell i ffwrdd, yn Ysgol Gyfun Llanilltud Fawr, ni all y pennaeth, y cyfarfûm ag ef ddydd Gwener, weld ei sefyllfa’n gwella o gwbl, wrth iddo geisio bwrw ymlaen â’i brosiectau ailddatblygu. Cred eu bod wedi diflannu oddi ar y map yn llwyr. Felly, byddai’n dda iawn gennyf glywed sut y byddech yn categoreiddio angen. Ai gofyniad cymdeithasol ynteu gofyniad o ran adeiladu fydd yn penderfynu? Wrth ichi sôn am fesur yr angen, ai angen y gymuned, angen dalgylch yr ysgol, ynteu angen ardal ehangach yr awdurdod addysg lleol a fydd yn gorfod ticio’r blychau er mwyn i ysgol gael mwy o flaenoriaeth ar gyfer buddsoddi? Mae hynny’n hanfodol er mwyn deall sut y bydd trefn y datblygu hwn yn mynd rhagddi.

In your own constituency, Minister—which I know well, as I live there—some places, such as Barry, could tick all the social provision boxes for most catchment areas, while others, such as Cowbridge and Llantwit Major, would probably struggle to tick those boxes. However, all those areas are covered by the local education authority that is the lowest funded by the Welsh Assembly Government: the Vale of Glamorgan. Therefore, it is critical that we understand exactly where you are coming from in setting these parameters.

Yn eich etholaeth eich hun, Weinidog—etholaeth yr wyf yn ei hadnabod yn dda, oherwydd fy mod yn byw yno—gallai rhai mannau, megis y Barri, fodloni pob gofyniad o ran darpariaeth gymdeithasol ar gyfer y rhan fwyaf o’r dalgylchoedd, ond mae’n debygol y byddai rhai eraill, megis y Bont-Faen a Llanilltud Fawr, yn ei chael yn anodd gwneud hynny. Serch hynny, mae’r ardaloedd hynny i gyd yn dod o dan yr awdurdod addysg lleol sy’n cael ei ariannu waethaf gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, Bro Morgannwg. Felly, mae’n hollbwysig inni ddeall beth yn union yw eich safbwynt wrth bennu’r meini prawf hyn.

You do not highlight at all in your statement the need for effective consultation despite the fact that, time and again, reports have been made to the Assembly about the need for consultation to be meaningful, and for the community to feel as though it is being taken along with the agenda of reorganising or redeveloping schools. That omission from your statement is a fault, and I am keen to hear whether you have any comments on addressing the need for substantive consultation so that people feel that they can be taken along with the process. It might be that that would come under the planning process that the new board that you have set up will be overseeing, given that it will comprise representatives of the Welsh Local Government Association and the Welsh Assembly Government.

Ni ddywedwch o gwbl yn eich datganiad fod angen ymgynghori effeithiol er bod adroddiadau wedi’u cyflwyno dro ar ôl tro i’r Cynulliad ynglŷn â bod angen i ymgynghori fod yn ystyrlon, a bod angen i’r gymuned deimlo ei bod yn rhan o agenda ad-drefnu ac ailddatblygu ysgolion. Mae’n gamgymeriad hepgor hynny o’ch datganiad, ac yr wyf yn awyddus i glywed a oes gennych unrhyw sylw ynglŷn â bod angen ymgynghori sylweddol er mwyn i bobl deimlo eu bod yn rhan o’r broses. Efallai y byddai hynny’n dod o dan y broses gynllunio y bydd y bwrdd newydd yr ydych wedi’i sefydlu’n ei goruchwylio, o gofio y bydd yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad.

Finally, Minister, I am interested to know what sort of private sector involvement there will be in taking the issues forward. Later in your statement, you highlight that you will provide expert support for local authorities and colleges to draw on in taking their plans forward. Will this apply solely to the public sector, or will you be looking at all areas of support that could be afforded to LEAs and colleges, not ruling anything in or out? Given the difficult and challenging financial settlements that this institution will have to face in the forthcoming years, we need to ensure that all tools are available to us. Sadly, it is a fact that, after many years of feasting on generous public sector settlements, the Welsh Assembly Government has presided over such a lamentable investment record on school redevelopment. I hope that you will now seek to move forward on a positive footing to address the shortcomings.

Yn olaf, Weinidog, byddai’n dda gennyf wybod pa fath o ran a fyddai gan y sector preifat yng nghyswllt bwrw ymlaen â’r materion. Yn ddiweddarach yn eich datganiad, dywedwch y byddwch yn darparu cymorth arbenigol i awdurdodau lleol a cholegau fanteisio arni wrth fwrw ymlaen â’u cynlluniau. Ai i’r sector cyhoeddus yn unig y bydd hyn yn berthnasol, ynteu a fyddwch yn edrych ar bob maes o ran y cymorth y gellid ei roi i AALlau ac i golegau, heb gynnwys nac eithrio dim? O gofio’r setliadau ariannol anodd a dyrys y bydd yn rhaid i’r sefydliad hwn eu hwynebu yn y blynyddoedd nesaf, mae angen inni sicrhau bod pob arf ar gael inni. Yn anffodus, ar ôl gwledda ar setliadau hael i’r sector cyhoeddus am flynyddoedd lawer, mae'n ffaith bod gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad record druenus o fuddsoddi mewn ailddatblygu ysgolion. Gobeithio y byddwch yn awr yn ceisio symud ymlaen ar sail gadarnhaol er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r gwendidau.

Jane Hutt: In my statement today, I made a commitment to take this forward with the leadership that we need nationally and locally. I think that that sums up the prospects that we have for our learners, ensuring that they are at the forefront of our investment. Our strategic intent is quite clear, as you will recognise from my statement.

Jane Hutt: Yn fy natganiad heddiw, ymrwymais i fwrw ymlaen â hyn gan roi’r arweiniad y mae ei angen arnom yn genedlaethol ac yn lleol. Credaf fod hynny’n crynhoi’r rhagolygon sydd gennym ar gyfer ein dysgwyr, gan sicrhau mai hwy sy’n cael y sylw blaenaf wrth inni fuddsoddi. Mae ein bwriad strategol yn eithaf clir, fel y gwelwch yn fy natganiad.

On putting the record straight, I did that in my statement, referring to the £667 million that we invested in school buildings between 2004 and 2008. I have been pleased to open several new schools in Tory-controlled Monmouthshire. Nick Ramsay, the AM for Monmouth, is not here today but I know that, on each of those occasions, the council’s leader, Peter Fox, with whom I work closely as the cabinet member in the WLGA, has acknowledged the contribution from the Welsh Assembly Government, not just in funding but in working in partnership to deliver that new estate for learners in the constituency. [Interruption.] I am answering your questions as fully as I can in the time allowed.

O ran unioni pethau, gwneuthum hynny yn fy natganiad, drwy gyfeirio at y £667 miliwn a fuddsoddwyd gennym mewn adeiladau ysgolion rhwng 2004 a 2008. Yr wyf wedi bod yn falch o agor amryw o ysgolion newydd yn sir Fynwy, sydd dan reolaeth y Torïaid. Nid yw Nick Ramsay, yr AC dros sir Fynwy, yma heddiw, ond gwn, ar bob un o'r achlysuron hynny, fod arweinydd y cyngor, Peter Fox, y byddaf yn gweithio’n glòs gydag ef ac yntau’n aelod cabinet yng Nghymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, wedi cydnabod cyfraniad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, nid dim ond o ran ariannu, ond o ran gwaith partneriaeth i wireddu’r ystâd newydd honno i ddysgwyr yn yr etholaeth. [Torri ar draws.] Yr wyf rhoi ateb mor llawn ag y gallaf i'ch cwestiynau yn yr amser a ganiateir.

This is part of a strategic approach to primary and secondary education, and beyond to further and higher education, where that is within my departmental remit. Robust estate strategies will lead to capital investment and to decisions that we will take on our commitment to post-16 education and to the transformation agenda. My Deputy Minister for Skills, John Griffiths, will also respond to the proactive and constructive proposals that are coming forward from local authorities for the post-16 agenda, which will filter through into the options that I have for capital investment. I made it clear in my statement that I would be considering those proposals. That will be about working in partnership with local authorities at the sharp end. It does not just entail the local education authority; the whole local authority needs to be engaged in the planning of schools, given that it is linked to the community planning approach, to children and young people’s plans, to regeneration strategies, leisure facilities, and the proposals that I have demonstrated, such as the Blaenavon community campus. I hope that you will see more projects of that kind.

Mae hyn yn rhan o ddull strategol o ymdrin ag addysg gynradd ac uwchradd, ac ag  addysg bellach ac addysg uwch yn ogystal, lle y bo hynny o fewn cylch gorchwyl fy adran. Bydd strategaethau cadarn ar gyfer yr ystâd yn arwain at fuddsoddi cyfalaf a phenderfyniadau a wnawn ynglŷn â’n hymrwymiad i addysg ôl-16 a’r agenda gweddnewid. Bydd John Griffiths, fy Nirprwy Weinidog dros Sgiliau, yn ymateb hefyd i’r cynigion rhagweithiol ac adeiladol sy’n cael eu cynnig gan awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer yr agenda ôl-16. Bydd y rheini’n  dylanwadu ar y dewisiadau sydd gennyf ar gyfer buddsoddi cyfalaf. Fe’i gwneuthum yn glir yn fy natganiad y byddwn yn ystyried y cynigion hynny. Bydd hynny’n ymwneud â chydweithio ag awdurdodau lleol sydd ar flaen y gad. Nid yw hynny’n golygu’r awdurdod addysg lleol yn unig, mae angen i’r awdurdod lleol i gyd fod yn ymwneud â chynllunio ysgolion, o gofio bod cysylltiad rhwng hynny a’r dull o fynd ati drwy gynllunio cymunedol, a’r cynlluniau plant a phobl ifanc, a’r strategaethau adfywio, a chyfleusterau hamdden, a’r cynigion yr wyf wedi rhoi enghreifftiau ohonynt, megis campws cymunedol Blaenafon. Gobeithio y gwelwch ragor o brosiectau o’r math hwnnw.

We are clearly in this for the long term, Andrew. We are ambitious for our children, and, as your Minister, I have to make quite clear today that I recognise that we have to look at the opportunities to refurbish or rebuild every educational institution or building that may not be fit for the twenty-first century. It has to be a case of orchestrating that with our strategic plan and roll-out. We have to recognise that school reorganisation—the nub of our debate last week in response to the Rural Development Sub-committee’s report on small and rural schools—will be about how authorities address issues of falling rolls and surplus places, and how they use the opportunity afforded by capital investment to make the change, to engage communities, and to get new buildings, new projects and new schools, which can be a focus for the community.

Mae’n amlwg mai cynllun hirdymor yw hyn, Andrew. Mae gennym uchelgais ar gyfer ein plant, ac, a minnau’n Weinidog, rhaid imi ei gwneud yn gwbl glir heddiw fy mod yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid inni edrych ar y cyfleoedd i adnewyddu neu ailadeiladu pob sefydliad neu adeilad addysgol nad yw efallai’n addas ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Rhaid inni gyd-drefnu hynny â’n cynllun strategol a rhoi hyn ar waith. Rhaid inni gydnabod y bydd a wnelo ad-drefnu ysgolion—craidd ein dadl yr wythnos diwethaf wrth inni ymateb i adroddiad yr Is-bwyllgor Datblygu Gwledig am ysgolion bach a gwledig—â sut yr aiff awdurdodau ati i fynd i’r afael â’r gostyngiad yn nifer y plant a lleoedd gwag, a sut y byddant yn defnyddio’r cyfle a gynigir yn sgîl  buddsoddi cyfalaf i newid pethau, i feithrin cysylltiad â chymunedau, ac i gael adeiladau newydd, prosiectau newydd ac ysgolion newydd a all fod yn ganolbwynt i’r gymuned.

Andrew, you asked me about the level of engagement with communities that I would seek in consultation. We have debated fully in the Chamber the consultation on the revised circular. Circular 23/02 is being revised to bring it up to date for twenty-first century schools. The consultation draft of the circular includes the need for a community impact appraisal as well as a language impact appraisal.

Andrew, holasoch i ba raddau y byddwn yn ceisio meithrin cysylltiad â chymunedau wrth ymgynghori. Yr ydym wedi cael dadl lawn yn y Siambr ynglŷn â’r ymgynghori ynghylch y cylchlythyr diwygiedig. Mae Cylchlythyr 23/02 yn cael ei ddiwygio er mwyn iddo fod yn addas ar gyfer ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae drafft ymgynghori’r cylchlythyr yn cynnwys bod angen arfarnu’r effaith ar y gymuned yn ogystal ag arfnaru’r effaith ar y Gymraeg.

In responding to last week’s debate on the sub-committee’s report, I gave my clear commitment to provide guidance requiring consultation to engage communities fully so that the difficult changes that are required at the sharp end, as we know, given local changes, sensitivity and community impact, can be delivered. However, we would do more than issue guidance; we would also share best practice, which does exist across Wales, when we see the changes that have been made.

Wrth ymateb i’r ddadl yr wythnos diwethaf am adroddiad yr is-bwyllgor, ymrwymais yn glir i ddarparu canllawiau a fyddai’n mynnu bod yr ymgynghori’n ymgysylltu’n llawn â chymunedau er mwyn sicrhau bod modd gwireddu’r newidiadau anodd sy’n ofynnol ar lawr gwlad, fel y gwyddom, o gofio’r newidiadau’n lleol, sensitifrwydd hyn a’r effaith ar y gymuned. Fodd bynnag, byddem yn gwneud mwy na chyhoeddi canllawiau, byddem hefyd yn rhannu’r arferion gorau, sydd i’w gweld ar draws Cymru, pan welwn y newidiadau sydd wedi digwydd.

3.00 p.m.

 

On asset management planning, we have looked to our schools’ estates, and we recognise that it has to be part of a plan that looks at the community impact. We also recognise that, given the issues around asset management planning across Wales, there is a different level of readiness in terms of projects among local authorities in Wales. I will expect local authorities to come up to speed in terms of recognising the criteria for building a twenty-first century school, and that is why we need to work together and in partnership with the Welsh Local Government Association. They must be ready to engage with their communities, to consider every source of funding and to learn from each other. That might include cross-boundary planning and working, as we have seen through the steer of Value Wales, which is working with five local authorities, to see how they can make the best use of procurement strategies and planning across local authority boundaries. I do not intend to spend much time dwelling on the needs of my own constituency, although I would love to do so, but during the brief time that Labour was in control of the Vale of Glamorgan, it managed to get the plan for Cowbridge through and it is now being taken forward. In terms of secondary school provision and the three-school plan, I am sure that our constituents would want us to recognise that Llantwit Major Comprehensive School and St Cyres School are still at the forefront, I hope, of the Vale of Glamorgan plan. It must also be recognised that we are investing in a 14-19 learning centre in the Vale of Glamorgan, and similar projects are also coming through across Wales.

O ran cynllunio ar gyfer rheoli asedau, yr ydym wedi edrych ar ystadau’n hysgolion, ac yr ydym yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid i hynny fod yn rhan o gynllun sy’n edrych ar yr effaith ar y gymuned. Cydnabyddwn hefyd, o gofio’r materion sy’n ymwneud â chynllunio rheoli asedau ledled Cymru, fod lefel wahanol o barodrwydd yng nghyd-destun prosiectau ymysg awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru. Byddaf yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol ddod yn gyfarwydd â’r meini prawf ar gyfer adeiladu ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, a dyna pam y mae angen inni weithio ar y cyd ac mewn partneriaeth â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Rhaid iddynt fod yn barod i ymgysylltu â’u cymunedau, ystyried yr holl ffynonellau cyllid a dysgu oddi wrth ei gilydd. Gallai hynny gynnwys cynllunio a gweithio ar draws ffiniau, fel yr ydym wedi gweld dan arweiniad Gwerth Cymru, sy’n cydweithio â phum awdurdod lleol, i weld sut y gallant wneud y defnydd gorau o strategaethau caffael a chynllunio ar draws ffiniau awdurdodau lleol. Nid wyf yn bwriadu treulio llawer o amser yn ymdrin ag anghenion fy etholaeth fy hun, er y byddwn wrth fy modd yn gwneud hynny, ond yn ystod y cyfnod byr yr oedd Llafur yn rheoli Bro Morgannwg, llwyddodd i sicrhau bod y cynllun ar gyfer y Bont-faen yn cael ei dderbyn ac mae’n cael ei roi ar waith yn awr. O ran y ddarpariaeth ysgolion uwchradd a’r cynllun tair ysgol, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai ein hetholwyr am inni gydnabod bod Ysgol Gyfun Llanilltud Fawr ac Ysgol St Cyres yn dal ar y blaen, yr wyf yn gobeithio, yng nghynllun Bro Morgannwg. Rhaid cydnabod hefyd ein bod yn buddsoddi mewn canolfan ddysgu 14-19 ym Mro Morgannwg, ac mae prosiectau tebyg yn dod i’r amlwg hefyd ledled Cymru.

In terms of the source of the capital funding, funding will come from my own department—I have said that I will make an announcement on that in early March—but also from the capital of local authorities, and European Union investment, where applicable. We must also ensure that we can look to other sources, such as the European Investment Bank, and gain funding, as I have for Wrexham, Newport and Blaenavon in Torfaen, from the Assembly Government’s new strategic capital investment fund. Clearly, we must consider every source, and I have identified those sources, which will be at the forefront of our considerations.

Gyda golwg ar ffynhonnell y cyllid cyfalaf, daw arian o’m hadran fy hun—yr wyf wedi dweud y byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad am hynny ddechrau Mawrth—ond hefyd o gronfeydd cyfalaf awdurdodau lleol, a thrwy fuddsoddi gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, lle y bo’n berthnasol. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd y gallwn droi at ffynonellau eraill, fel Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop, a sicrhau cyllid, fel yr wyf wedi gwneud i Wrecsam, Casnewydd a Blaenafon yn Nhor-faen, o gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol newydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Wrth gwrs, rhaid inni ystyried pob ffynhonnell, ac yr wyf wedi enwi’r ffynonellau hynny, y byddwn yn rhoi’r brif ystyriaeth iddynt.

Jeff Cuthbert: Thank you for your very positive statement. It is a pleasure to hear about concrete plans for investment in our schools estate. This is in contrast to the period between 1979 and 1997 when Welsh schools were starved of capital investment when the Conservative Party was in charge.

Jeff Cuthbert: Diolch i chi am eich datganiad cadarnhaol iawn. Mae’n braf clywed am gynlluniau pendant i fuddsoddi yn ein hystâd ysgolion. Mae hyn yn hollol wahanol i’r cyfnod rhwng 1979 a 1997 pan amddifadwyd ysgolion Cymru o fuddsoddiad cyfalaf pan oedd y Blaid Geidwadol mewn grym.

Although your statement has primarily been about the issue of capital expenditure to build schools that are fit for purpose, it strongly relates to what goes on in those schools. While we need buildings that are fit for purpose, it is crucial that they are centres of education for children and that the education provided in them is appropriate, up to date and right for as many individuals as possible.

Er bod eich datganiad wedi ymdrin yn bennaf â mater gwariant cyfalaf i godi ysgolion sy’n addas i’w diben, mae’n ymwneud yn bendant â’r hyn sy’n mynd ymlaen yn yr ysgolion hynny. Er bod arnom angen adeiladau sy’n addas, mae’n hollbwysig iddynt fod yn ganolfannau addysg i blant a bod yr addysg a ddarperir ynddynt yn briodol, yn gyfoes ac yn addas i gynifer o unigolion ag sy’n bosibl.

Many children throughout my constituency have benefited from the raising attainment and individual standards in education scheme. Do you agree that, in general terms, we need to consider the working and learning environment and the subject matter and methods of teaching? That is why we in Wales continue to consider ways of developing the entire education experience for younger people and adults alike, from the foundation phase, which helps younger children to learn through structured play and to understand the key skills without even realising it, right through to the 14-19 learning pathways, which include a mixture of academic and vocational approaches, and the Welsh baccalaureate, which is an innovative approach that we have developed to give young people a broader and more rounded understanding to enable them to take the opportunities that will be presented to them in later life.

Mae llawer o blant ledled fy etholaeth wedi elwa o’r cynllun codi cyrhaeddiad a safonau addysgol unigolion. A ydych yn derbyn, yn gyffredinol, fod angen inni ystyried yr amgylchedd gweithio a dysgu a’r cynnwys a’r dulliau addysgu? Dyna pam yr ydym ni yng Nghymru’n dal i ystyried dulliau o ddatblygu’r profiad addysgol cyfan ar gyfer pobl ifanc ac oedolion fel ei gilydd, o’r cyfnod sylfaen, sy’n helpu plant iau i ddysgu drwy chwarae strwythuredig a deall y sgiliau allweddol heb hyd yn oed sylweddoli hynny, hyd at y llwybrau dysgu 14-19, sy’n cynnwys cymysgedd o ddulliau academaidd a galwedigaethol, a bagloriaeth Cymru, sy’n ddull arloesol yr ydym wedi’i ddatblygu i roi i bobl ifanc ddealltwriaeth ehangach a mwy cyflawn i’w galluogi i achub y cyfleoedd a gânt pan fyddant yn hŷn.

I trust that you agree that we are considering ways of changing attitudes to ensure that people can choose the career path that is right for them and that we equip them with the skills that they need to excel and improve their life chances. In other words, we clearly need to provide first-class, fit-for-purpose buildings, and I believe that this statement is a most definite and large step in that direction. The learning programmes and methods must be as individual as possible so that learners benefit from being taught the right type of subjects in the right way and in the right environment.

Hyderaf eich bod yn cytuno ein bod yn ystyried dulliau o newid agweddau i sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu dewis y llwybr ar gyfer gyrfa sy’n addas iddynt hwy a’n bod yn rhoi iddynt y sgiliau y bydd arnynt eu hangen i ragori a gwella’u cyfleoedd mewn bywyd. Mewn geiriau eraill, mae’n amlwg bod angen inni ddarparu adeiladau addas o’r radd flaenaf, a chredaf fod y datganiad hwn yn gam mawr a phendant iawn i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw. Rhaid i’r rhaglenni a’r dulliau dysgu fod mor unigol ag sy’n bosibl fel y bydd dysgwyr yn elwa o addysgu’r math priodol o bynciau iddynt yn y modd priodol ac yn yr amgylchedd priodol.

Jane Hutt: This is where we need to be more radical and visionary in terms of the twenty-first century school. It is not just bricks and mortar. I mentioned ICT as part of the capital infrastructure, I know that colleagues around the Chamber will, like me, see the benefits of ICT, not only in the new school buildings that we have been opening over the past 10 years, but also of the investment, which was one of the first investments that Jane Davidson pioneered, in whiteboards in our schools, and the difference that they have made to our children’s educational and technological understanding and abilities, and the opportunities provided to our teaching profession through the twenty-first century resources that they can use. Our schools must be centres of excellence, and we strive for that.

Jane Hutt: Mae angen inni fod yn fwy radicalaidd a mwy o weledigaeth gennym yn hyn o beth yng nghyd-destun yr ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Nid yr adeiladau’n unig sydd dan sylw. Soniais am TGCh fel rhan o’r seilwaith cyfalaf. Gwn y bydd cyd-Aelodau o gwmpas y Siambr, fel minnau, yn gweld y manteision sydd mewn TGCh, nid yn unig yn yr adeiladau ysgolion newydd yr ydym wedi bod yn eu hagor yn ystod y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, ond hefyd yn y buddsoddi, sef un o’r buddsoddiadau cyntaf a arloeswyd gan Jane Davidson, mewn byrddau gwyn yn ein hysgolion, a’r gwahaniaeth y maent wedi’i wneud yn nealltwriaeth a galluoedd addysgol a thechnolegol ein plant, a’r cyfleoedd a gynigir i’n proffesiwn addysgu drwy’r adnoddau ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain y gall eu defnyddio. Rhaid i’n hysgolion fod yn ganolfannau rhagoriaeth, ac yr ydym yn ymdrechu i sicrhau hynny.

The key to our approach, and this goes back to some of the points that Andrew R.T. Davies made, is that we target where we know that there is disadvantage, we target our resources at Flying Start, before children go to school. We are targeting those 16,500 children and their families to ensure that they have the best start in life, and when they reach school every three to seven-year-old in Wales will benefit from our foundation phase. We have targeted capital investment in the early years, which includes the outdoor classrooms coming through the foundation phase curriculum, transforming the experience and environment of children’s learning, through RAISE. I look forward to responding to the committee report on how we can use education to tackle child poverty tomorrow, because that is a key part of our social justice agenda.

Yr allwedd i’n dull o weithredu, ac mae hyn yn berthnasol i rai o’r pwyntiau a wnaeth Andrew R.T. Davies, yw ein bod yn targedu mannau lle y gwyddom fod anfantais, ein bod yn targedu ein hadnoddau ar Dechrau’n Deg, cyn i blant fynd i’r ysgol. Yr ydym yn targedu’r 16,500 o blant hynny a’u teuluoedd i sicrhau eu bod yn cael y dechrau gorau mewn bywyd, a phan gyrhaeddant yr ysgol bydd pob un rhwng tair a saith mlwydd oed yng Nghymru yn elwa o’n cyfnod sylfaen. Yr ydym wedi targedu buddsoddiadau cyfalaf ar y blynyddoedd cynnar, sy’n cynnwys yr ystafelloedd dosbarth awyr agored sy’n dod drwy gwricwlwm y cyfnod sylfaen, gan drawsnewid profiad ac amgylchedd y dysgu gan blant, drwy Rhagori. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb yfory i adroddiad y pwyllgor ynghylch sut y gallwn ddefnyddio addysg i fynd i’r afael â thlodi plant, gan fod hynny’n rhan allweddol o’n hagenda ar gyfiawnder cymdeithasol.

In addition, we are moving away from the £9 million flat rate school building improvement grant, which every authority received under previous arrangements for our school capital investment programme, to a more targeted approach. This is where we must challenge authorities to ensure that they are looking at not only where they need to tackle poor estates in their asset management plans, but also the aims and ambitions in their children and young people plans to tackle disadvantage and deprivation, to narrow the gap and to raise the bar for our children. The revised skills curriculum that is coming in in September is relevant, given that this is a time of economic downturn, putting financial literacy and financial education at the forefront of the agenda. The environment in which children learn is critical, and that is why I hope that the national leadership that we show together with the leadership of Welsh local government will make the difference for twenty-first-century schools.

Yn ogystal â hynny, yr ydym yn troi oddi wrth y grant gwella adeiladau ysgolion unffurf o £9 miliwn, a gâi pob awdurdod o dan drefniadau blaenorol ar gyfer ein rhaglen buddsoddi cyfalaf ysgolion, at ddull sydd wedi’i dargedu i fwy o raddau. Yn hyn o beth, rhaid inni herio awdurdodau i sicrhau eu bod yn edrych nid yn unig ar fannau lle y mae angen iddynt ddelio ag ystadau gwael yn eu cynlluniau rheoli asedau, ond hefyd ar y nodau a’r uchelgeisiau yn eu cynlluniau plant a phobl ifanc er mwyn mynd i’r afael ag anfantais ac amddifadedd, i gau’r bwlch a bod yn fwy uchelgeisiol dros ein plant. Mae’r cwricwlwm sgiliau diwygiedig a gyflwynir ym mis Medi’n berthnasol, gan fod hwn yn gyfnod o ddirywiad economaidd, am ei fod yn rhoi llythrennedd ariannol ac addysg ariannol ar frig yr agenda. Mae’r amgylchedd lle y mae plant yn dysgu’n hollbwysig, a dyna pam yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd yr arweiniad cenedlaethol a ddangoswn ynghyd ag arweiniad llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru yn gwneud gwahaniaeth pendant ar gyfer ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

Jenny Randerson: Thank you for your statement, Minister, from which several issues emerge on which I would like to ask you questions. Rather ambitiously, you referred to the Government’s excellent track record of investment in schools, but the Government’s record is not quite as excellent as you try to paint it. I acknowledge that you have been trying your best, over some years, but your best has simply not been good enough, especially in comparison with other parts of United Kingdom. I am very pleased to see that you are taking a more co-ordinated, joined-up approach, as working with local authorities is the only sensible way forward, and I welcome the reference to EU investment. However, I particularly comment on the lack of any reference to private sector investment in schools in terms of getting public-private partnerships or not-for-profit organisations interested in investing in our schools.

Jenny Randerson: Diolch i chi am eich datganiad, Weinidog, y mae amryw o faterion yn codi ohono yr hoffwn ofyn cwestiynau i chi yn eu cylch. Gan fod braidd yn uchelgeisiol, cyfeiriasoch at record ragorol y Llywodraeth o ran buddsoddi mewn ysgolion, ond nid yw record y Llywodraeth mor rhagorol yn hollol ag yr ydych yn honni. Yr wyf yn cydnabod eich bod wedi bod yn ceisio gwneud eich gorau, ers rhai blynyddoedd, ond nid yw eich ymdrechion gorau wedi bod yn ddigon da o gwbl, yn enwedig o’u cymharu â rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Yr wyf yn falch iawn o weld eich bod yn gweithredu mewn modd mwy cydgysylltiedig, oherwydd cydweithio ag awdurdodau lleol yw’r unig ffordd synhwyrol ymlaen, ac yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfeiriad at fuddsoddi gan yr UE. Serch hynny, gwnaf sylw’n benodol am ddiffyg cyfeiriad at fuddsoddi gan y sector preifat mewn ysgolion o ran sicrhau diddordeb gan bartneriaethau cyhoeddus-preifat a chyrff di-elw mewn buddsoddi yn ein hysgolion.

3.10 p.m.

 

I understand entirely the Government’s concerns about old-fashioned private finance initiatives, and I agree with them. However, modern public and private sector partnerships can certainly lead the way, as other parts of the UK have found. I will challenge you with some statistics that we have obtained, which give you a comparison of the level of investment that there has been across the countries of the UK in recent years. In Northern Ireland, the school modernisation programme equates to £1,410 per pupil in terms of capital investment. In England, under the better schools for the future strategy, there is a more modest £680 per pupil. In Scotland, building our future equates to £462 per pupil. In Wales, we have £352 per pupil of capital investment.

Yr wyf yn deall yn llwyr y pryderon sydd gan y Llywodraeth ynghylch mentrau cyllid preifat hen ffasiwn, ac yr wyf yn eu derbyn. Er hynny, mae’n sicr bod partneriaethau modern rhwng y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat yn gallu dangos y ffordd, fel y mae rhannau eraill o’r DU wedi gweld. Fe’ch heriaf â rhai ystadegau yr ydym wedi’u cael, sy’n rhoi cymhariaeth i chi o lefel y buddsoddi sydd wedi bod ar draws gwledydd y DU yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Yng Ngogledd Iwerddon, mae’r rhaglen moderneiddio ysgolion yn cyfateb i £1,410 y disgybl yng nghyd-destun buddsoddi cyfalaf. Yn Lloegr, o dan y strategaeth ysgolion gwell ar gyfer y dyfodol, mae swm llai o £680 y disgybl. Yn yr Alban, mae’r rhaglen adeiladu ein dyfodol yn cyfateb i £462 y disgybl. Yng Nghymru, mae gennym fuddsoddi cyfalaf o £352 y disgybl.

In the face of that uphill struggle, that unequal and unfair distribution of resources, we are clearly not doing the best for our children. I do not think that your Government has an excellent track record. For that reason, I wonder why you are not taking into consideration the issue of private sector finance to assist in this uphill struggle that you undoubtedly face.

O ystyried y dasg anodd honno, y dosbarthu anghyfartal ac annheg hwnnw ar adnoddau, mae’n amlwg nad ydym yn gwneud ein gorau dros ein plant. Nid wyf yn credu bod gan eich Llywodraeth record ragorol. Oherwydd hynny, yr wyf yn meddwl tybed pam nad ydych yn ystyried cyllid y sector preifat i helpu yn y dasg anodd hon y mae’n sicr eich bod yn ei hwynebu.

The Welsh Assembly Government has recently established, rather belatedly, a central unit to advise on private sector finance. I gather that the idea is that that unit works with the private sector and local authorities in order to provide specialist advice. Will you be using that unit to assist local authorities and the Government in raising the very limited amount of capital investment that your Government has been able to afford so far for our schoolchildren?

Yn ddiweddar, ac yn hwyr braidd, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi sefydlu uned ganolog i roi cyngor ar gyllid y sector preifat. Yr wyf yn casglu mai’r bwriad yw y bydd yr uned honno’n cydweithio â’r sector preifat ac awdurdodau lleol er mwyn darparu cyngor arbenigol. A fyddwch yn defnyddio’r uned honno i helpu awdurdodau lleol a’r Llywodraeth i godi’r swm cyfyngedig iawn o fuddsoddiad cyfalaf y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi gallu ei fforddio hyd yn hyn ar gyfer ein plant ysgol?

I will move on from that to the issue of how fast this money will come forward. You comment on the importance of capital investment and the importance of the construction industry in stimulating our economy, and I fully understand that, when the Government probably first put its plans in place for capital investment, it was not obvious that the economic crisis was going to be anything like as bad as it has been. However, I am concerned at the slow roll-out of the strategic capital investment fund and that so much money from that fund is still weighted towards its third year when there is every argument for bringing that money forward much more quickly. I would like your comments on the work that you and your colleagues in the Government are doing to ensure that some of that money comes forward more quickly. I am asking that question because you have talked about bringing the money forward more quickly and giving the money and the resources according to need and readiness. That is what you said.

Symudaf ymlaen o hynny at y cwestiwn pa mor gyflym y bydd yr arian hwn yn dod i law. Gwnaethoch sylw am bwysigrwydd buddsoddi cyfalaf a phwysigrwydd y diwydiant adeiladu o ran ysgogi ein heconomi, ac yr wyf yn deall yn llwyr nad oedd yn amlwg, ar yr adeg y gwnaeth y Llywodraeth ei chynlluniau ar gyfer buddsoddi cyfalaf i ddechrau yn ôl pob tebyg, y byddai’r argyfwng economaidd llawn cyn waethed ag y mae wedi bod. Er hynny, yr wyf yn pryderu ynghylch yr arafwch wrth roi’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol ar waith a bod cymaint o arian yn y gronfa honno wedi’i bwysoli o hyd tuag at ei thrydedd flwyddyn gan fod pob lle i ddadlau y dylid dod â’r arian hwnnw ymlaen yn gynt o lawer. Hoffwn gael sylwadau gennych am y gwaith yr ydych chi a’ch cyd-Weinidogion yn y Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau y daw rhywfaint o’r arian hwnnw ymlaen yn gynt. Yr wyf yn gofyn hynny am eich bod wedi sôn am ddod â’r arian ymlaen yn gynt a rhoi’r arian a’r adnoddau yn ôl angen a pharodrwydd. Dyna a ddywedasoch.

Local authorities across Wales tell me that they have schemes ready to be up and running very quickly—almost off-the-peg schemes, ready for investment—but lack the finances to progress. Given that local authorities are saying that those schemes are available and that you are giving money this year—or so it appears—only to Newport, Wrexham and Blaenavon, which are the major schemes that you have put forward, why are you unable to provide additional capital funding now for those schemes that are ready to run and why are you saving the money still until years two and three of the strategic capital investment fund? I very much hope that you can assure me that the Government is examining the phasing of that fund with a view to bringing more money forward much more quickly.

Mae awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru’n dweud wrthyf fod ganddynt gynlluniau y gellid eu rhoi ar waith yn fuan iawn—cynlluniau parod bron, yn barod ar gyfer buddsoddi—ond nad oes ganddynt gyllid i symud ymlaen. Gan fod awdurdodau lleol yn dweud bod y cynlluniau hynny ar gael a’ch bod yn rhoi arian eleni—neu felly y mae’n ymddangos—i Gasnewydd, Wrecsam a Blaenafon yn unig, sef y cynlluniau mawr yr ydych wedi’u cyflwyno, pam nad ydych yn gallu darparu cyllid cyfalaf ychwanegol yn awr ar gyfer y cynlluniau hynny sy’n barod i’w rhoi ar waith a pham yr ydych yn dal i gadw’r arian tan ail a thrydedd flwyddyn y gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol? Yr wyf yn mawr obeithio y gallwch fy sicrhau bod y Llywodraeth wrthi’n ystyried sut y mae’r gronfa honno’n cael ei chyflwyno fesul cam gyda’r bwriad o ddod â mwy o arian ymlaen yn gynt o lawer.

You have given a figure of £29 million for Newport, Wrexham and Blaenavon, and I am sure that the people in those areas are duly grateful, but the use of that figure demonstrates the massive amount of money required to deal with the problems that local authorities face across Wales.

Yr ydych wedi rhoi ffigur o £29 miliwn ar gyfer Casnewydd, Wrecsam a Blaenafon, ac yr wyf yn siŵr bod y bobl yn yr ardaloedd hynny’n ddiolchgar fel sy’n briodol, ond mae defnyddio’r ffigur hwnnw yn dangos y swm aruthrol o arian y mae ei angen i ddelio â’r problemau y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu hwynebu ledled Cymru.

You emphasised the importance of what I would call multi-use schools; the importance of integrating schools with other facilities such as community centres, leisure centres, health centres, and so on. I would be grateful if you could comment on the importance that you attach to that. You singled that out, but what about those local authorities that do not use that approach? Do you mean that they will not get funding? Must authorities go for that approach in order to get funding, or will you look at each example as a one-off, with multi-use integration as a potential benefit? I ask because you will be aware that Cardiff Council has tried to take that multi-use approach and it has led to a great deal of criticism. I welcome the fact that your statement makes it so clear that the Government prefers this multi-use approach. That will help local authorities across Wales to persuade local residents that they need to be looking at a multi-use, community-school approach. That is not always popular with local people, and it is important that the Government takes a lead.

Pwysleisiasoch bwysigrwydd yr hyn y byddwn yn ei alw’n ysgolion aml-ddefnydd; pwysigrwydd integreiddio ysgolion â chyfleusterau eraill fel canolfannau cymunedol, canolfannau hamdden, canolfannau iechyd, ac yn y blaen. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech wneud sylw ynghylch pwysigrwydd hynny yn eich barn chi. Tynasoch sylw arbennig at hynny, ond beth am yr awdurdodau lleol nad ydynt yn dilyn y ffordd honno? Ai dweud yr ydych na chânt hwy gyllid? A oes raid i awdurdodau ddilyn y dull hwnnw er mwyn cael cyllid, ynteu a edrychwch ar bob enghraifft ar ei phen ei hun, gan ystyried integreiddio aml-ddefnydd fel budd posibl? Gofynnaf hyn oherwydd byddwch yn ymwybodol bod Cyngor Caerdydd wedi ceisio dilyn y llwybr aml-ddefnydd hwnnw ac wedi cael cryn dipyn o feirniadaeth. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith bod eich datganiad yn dweud mor glir fod y Llywodraeth yn ffafrio’r dull aml-ddefnydd hwn. Bydd hynny’n helpu awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru i ddarbwyllo trigolion lleol fod angen iddynt ystyried ysgolion cymunedol aml-ddefnydd. Nid yw hynny bob amser wrth fodd pobl leol, ac mae’n bwysig i’r Llywodraeth ddangos arweiniad.

Finally, the Welsh Liberal Democrats recently put forward an amendment that emphasised the importance of the Welsh Assembly Government taking a lead on the school reorganisation programme to deal with surplus places. We wanted to recognise the fact that local authorities across Wales are grappling with difficult problems on this. Not surprisingly, they are facing considerable community concern about those schools with a significant number of surplus places. I had hoped that this statement would offer stronger support for local authorities on that issue. It is implicit, because you cannot have an ambitious capital programme unless you deal with the issue of surplus places; the two sit alongside each other. I invite you to make a strong statement of support for local authorities dealing with these difficult issues—each of them in a different way, which they hope suits their constituents and local residents, but without the lead of the Welsh Assembly Government, and without the capital investment that you promised. They were told that, when they closed schools, they would be supported with some capital investment for new schools.

Yn olaf, cyflwynodd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru welliant yn ddiweddar a bwysleisiai mor bwysig ydoedd i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru roi arweiniad ynghylch y rhaglen ad-drefnu ysgolion i ddelio â lleoedd  gwag. Yr oedd arnom eisiau cydnabod y ffaith bod awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru’n ymlafnio â phroblemau anodd yn hyn o beth. Fel y gellid disgwyl, maent yn wynebu cryn bryder yn y gymuned ynghylch yr ysgolion hynny lle y mae nifer sylweddol o leoedd  gwag. Yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio y byddai’r datganiad hwn yn cynnig cefnogaeth gryfach i awdurdodau lleol ar y mater hwnnw. Mae ymhlyg yn hyn, oherwydd ni ellir cael rhaglen gyfalaf uchelgeisiol heb ddelio â phroblem lleoedd gwag; mae’r ddau beth yn cyd-fynd. Fe’ch gwahoddaf i wneud datganiad cryf o gefnogaeth i awdurdodau lleol sy’n delio â’r materion dyrys hyn—pob un ohonynt mewn ffordd wahanol, sydd, maent yn gobeithio, yn addas i’w hetholwyr a’u trigolion lleol, ond heb arweiniad gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, a heb y buddsoddiad cyfalaf a addawyd gennych. Dywedwyd wrthynt, pan gaeent ysgolion, y caent eu cefnogi â buddsoddiad cyfalaf ar gyfer ysgolion newydd.

Jane Hutt: I am grateful that you recognise that our ambitions for twenty-first century schools amount to a step change, and that I am paving a strategic way forward in partnership with local government. We know that these are some of the most difficult decisions that local authorities face. After the local government elections, we sat down with the cabinet members for education across Wales and said that now was the time for them to get on with planning, to learn from their mistakes, and to plan a way forward, taking local people with them, as far as possible. We must offer them the promise, and not just the hope, of support and capital investment, as well as strategic direction, advice and guidance in backing their collaboration—and it is collaboration at local level, with the co-location that I have been talking about.  I am not saying that it must all be that way, Jenny, but it is clear that—with regard to accessing sources of finance, being more strategic, recognising community needs and recognising the school as a focus of the community—there are real opportunities, which I would expect authorities to examine and take forward.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar eich bod yn cydnabod bod ein huchelgeisiau ar gyfer ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain yn gam pwysig ymlaen, ac fy mod yn paratoi ffordd strategol ymlaen mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol. Gwyddom fod y rhain ymhlith y penderfyniadau anoddaf y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu hwynebu. Ar ôl yr etholiadau llywodraeth leol, eisteddasom i lawr gyda’r aelodau cabinet dros addysg ar draws Cymru a dweud mai dyma’r adeg iddynt fwrw ati i gynllunio, dysgu oddi wrth eu camgymeriadau, a chynllunio ffordd ymlaen, gan ddarbwyllo pobl leol, hyd y gallent. Rhaid inni gynnig iddynt yr addewid, ac nid y gobaith yn unig, y cânt gefnogaeth a buddsoddiad cyfalaf, yn ogystal â chyfarwyddyd, cyngor ac arweiniad strategol wrth gefnogi eu cydweithio—a chydweithio ydyw, ar lefel leol, gyda’r cydleoliad yr wyf wedi bod yn sôn amdano. Nid wyf yn dweud bod yn rhaid i bopeth fod felly, Jenny, ond mae’n amlwg—yn nghyswllt cael gafael ar ffynonellau cyllid, bod yn fwy strategol, cydnabod anghenion cymunedau a chydnabod yr ysgol fel ffocws i’r gymuned—fod cyfleoedd gwirioneddol, y disgwyliwn i awdurdodau eu harchwilio a’u rhoi ar waith.

3.20p.m.

 

It is an investment of £672 million in the lifetime of this Assembly, which is Assembly Government funding, and in addition to that we are spending £54 million on two private finance initiative schemes. Overall, as I said in my statement, the Welsh Assembly Government, local education authorities and the dioceses are investing £0.25 billion to secure the twenty-first century schools opportunity.

Mae’n fuddsoddiad o £672 miliwn yn oes y Cynulliad hwn, sydd yn arian Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, ac ar ben hynny yr ydym yn gwario £54 miliwn ar ddau gynllun menter cyllid preifat. Drwyddi draw, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, awdurdodau addysg lleol a’r esgobaethau’n buddsoddi £0.25 biliwn i sicrhau’r cyfle i gael ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

I hope, Jenny, with my officials and at a ministerial level, that we will learn about capital investment programmes from across the United Kingdom. Some of the traditional PFI projects are becoming unstuck as a result of the economic downturn. We must look for innovative investment and we must seek expertise. Indeed, the Finance Minister’s strategic capital investment fund has a panel of experts to guide us, and these are experts who have worked in the Treasury, the private sector and the public sector. We want to ensure that we benefit from that guidance.

Yr wyf yn gobeithio, Jenny, gyda’m swyddogion ac ar lefel weinidogol, y dysgwn am raglenni buddsoddi cyfalaf o bob rhan o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae rhai o’r prosiectau PFI traddodiadol yn cloffi yn sgîl y dirywiad economaidd. Rhaid inni edrych am fuddsoddiad arloesol a rhaid inni chwilio am arbenigedd. Yn wir, mae gan gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol y Gweinidog Cyllid banel o arbenigwyr i’n harwain, arbenigwyr sydd wedi gweithio yn y Trysorlys, y sector preifat a’r sector cyhoeddus. Mae arnom eisiau sicrhau ein bod yn elwa o’r arweiniad hwnnw.

The local authorities that have been proactive, have made changes and are at the forefront, used prudential borrowing, and made use of opportunities for their estate and procurement. We have good examples of this.

Mae’r awdurdodau lleol sydd wedi bod yn rhagweithiol, sydd wedi gwneud newidiadau ac sydd ar flaen y gad, wedi defnyddio benthyca darbodus, ac wedi manteisio ar gyfleoedd i’w hystâd a’u caffael. Mae gennym enghreifftiau da o hyn.

I have brought forward capital funding: £5 million for schools; £2 million for further education colleges; and £2 million for universities. A total of 73 projects are going ahead and I can detail each of those in every local authority in Wales. The money was announced in December and it has to be spent by the end of March. I would be happy to share the project details with you if you would find it useful. We obtained £29 million for Wrexham and Newport, and for Torfaen—for the Blaenavon Community Campus—from the strategic capital investment fund. As for the proposals coming forward, I would expect more bids to go to the central pot.

Yr wyf wedi cyflwyno cyllid cyfalaf: £5 miliwn i ysgolion; £2 filiwn i golegau addysg bellach; a £2 filiwn i brifysgolion. Mae 73 o brosiectau’n mynd rhagddynt a gallaf roi manylion ynghylch pob un o’r rhain ym mhob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru. Cyhoeddwyd yr arian ym mis Rhagfyr ac mae’n rhaid ei wario erbyn diwedd Mawrth. Byddwn yn fodlon rhannu manylion y prosiect â chi, pe bai hynny o ryw fudd ichi. Cawsom £29 miliwn i Wrecsam a Chasnewydd, ac i Dor-faen—ar gyfer Campws Cymunedol Blaenafon—o’r gronfa buddsoddi cyfalaf strategol. O ran y cynigion sy’n cael eu cyflwyno, byddwn i’n disgwyl i fwy o geisiadau fynd i’r pot canolog.

However, I have said, Jenny, that I will make an announcement in early March—in a few weeks’ time—about the capital allocations for 2009-10. There will be capital allocations that I will be able to announce later in the year for 2010-11, so the proposals are coming forward. What needs to come from my statement today is a clear response. What I am hearing from your contribution and questions, and from Andrew R.T. Davies, is that this is an area of policy where we need to sign up together across the Assembly to address the challenges and to ensure that we can deliver on the twenty-first century schools provision, which we know is best for children at a local and national level, for the economy and for Welsh citizens.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi dweud, Jenny, y gwnaf gyhoeddiad yn gynnar ym mis Mawrth—ymhen ychydig wythnosau—am y dyraniadau cyfalaf ar gyfer 2009-10. Byddaf yn gallu cyhoeddi dyraniadau cyfalaf yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn ar gyfer 2010-11, felly mae’r cynigion yn cael eu cyflwyno. Yr hyn y mae ei angen yn fy natganiad heddiw yw ymateb clir. Yr hyn yr wyf yn ei glywed yn ôl eich cyfraniad a’ch cwestiynau chi, a chan Andrew R.T. Davies, yw bod hwn yn faes polisi lle y mae angen inni ymuno ar draws y Cynulliad i wynebu’r heriau ac i sicrhau ein bod yn gallu darparu ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, a gwyddom mai hynny yw’r peth gorau i blant ar lefel leol a chenedlaethol, i’r economi ac i ddinasyddion Cymru.

Lorraine Barrett: I was not going to raise this, as a parochial issue, but Jenny mentioned the Cardiff situation while looking across the Chamber at me. I would say to you, Minister, that I have no problem with encouraging integrated schools and community facilities. It is a great idea. However, do you agree with me that they need to be in the right place and, as you say, you need to take the community with you to ensure that it does not feel that it is losing a precious resource in order to have something else built on it? I would just make the point that this is fine, but it must be in the right place.

Lorraine Barrett: Nid oeddwn yn mynd i godi hyn, ac yntau’n fater plwyfol, ond soniodd Jenny am sefyllfa Caerdydd gan edrych ar draws y Siambr arnaf fi. Dywedaf wrthych, Weinidog, nad oes gennyf ddim problem gydag annog integreiddio ysgolion a chyfleusterau cymunedol. Mae’n syniad gwych. Fodd bynnag, a gytunwch â mi fod angen iddynt fod yn y lle iawn ac, fel y dywedwch, fod angen ichi ddarbwyllo’r gymuned er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’n teimlo ei bod yn colli adnodd gwerthfawr er mwyn i rywbeth arall gael ei adeiladu yn ei le? Dim ond eisiau gwneud y pwynt sydd arnaf fod hyn yn iawn, ond bod yn rhaid iddo fod yn y lle iawn.

Jane Hutt: Thank you, Lorraine. I do not think that I need to respond to that point.

Jane Hutt: Diolch, Lorraine. Nid wyf yn meddwl bod angen imi ymateb i’r pwynt hwnnw.

Gareth Jones: Weinidog, yr wyf yn croesawu’r datganiad hwn yn fawr. Y mae’n ddatganiad amserol yr oedd gwir ei angen, a datganiad sy’n cyfeirio at eich diffiniad o ysgolion sy’n addas i’w diben. Mae hyn wedi bod yn destun trafodaeth, neu hyd yn oed ddadlau, ond deallwn o’r datganiad eich bod yn cysylltu ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain gyda thechnoleg fodern, yr economi wybodaeth a’r berthynas allweddol rhwng ysgolion a’r gymuned leol.

Gareth Jones: Minister, I warmly welcome this statement. It is a timely, much-needed statement, a statement that refers to your definition of schools that are fit for purpose. This has been a topic of discussion, or even debate, but we understand from the statement that you associate twenty-first century schools with modern technology, the information economy and the crucial relationship between schools and the local community.

Yr ydych hefyd yn ein hatgoffa y bydd angen cydlynu effeithiol, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â’r datblygiadau cyffrous mewn addysg ôl-16. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am roi hynny yn ei gyd-destun; yr oedd angen gwneud hynny.

 

You also remind us that there will be a need for effective co-ordination, particularly regarding the exciting developments in post-16 education. I am grateful to you for putting that in its context; that was needed.

Da a theg yw cydnabod y rhaglen o fuddsoddiad mewn adeiladau ysgolion, a fydd yn werth £730 miliwn erbyn 2011. Derbyniaf hefyd fod faint o gyllid ac arian yr ydych yn ei fuddsoddi mewn ysgolion yn rhywbeth dadleuol ac y gallem ddadlau yn ei gylch am byth. Serch hynny, mae’n deg cydnabod bod Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un yn buddsoddi yn ein hysgolion a’u hadeiladau.

It is good and fair to acknowledge the programme of investment in school buildings, which will be worth £730 million by 2011. I accept, also, that the amount of funding you invest in schools is a contentious issue and that we could argue about it forever. However, it is fair to acknowledge that the One Wales Government is investing in our schools and their buildings.

Ac ystyried y datganiad, efallai mai’r brif her yw’r modd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un yn ceisio darparu rhaglen fuddsoddi strategol drwy Gymru gyfan. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddywedasoch, mae hynny’n golygu symud o fuddsoddiad sy’n seiliedig ar fformiwla i fuddsoddiad sy’n seiliedig ar anghenion. Nid wyf wedi cymharu nodiadau gydag Andrew R.T. Davies, ond codwyd materion o bwys ganddo. Mae sut yr ewch ati i ddehongli anghenion yn bwysig, yn ogystal â sut y byddwch yn ymgynghori yn eu cylch. Yr ydych yn iawn i roi pwyslais ar fod yn rhagweithiol, ond mae hynny’n golygu bod yn rhaid i’r broses ymgynghori fod yn effeithiol a chywir, a rhaid iddi gwmpasu pawb sydd â dylanwad yn y maes. Nid yr awdurdodau addysg lleol yw’r unig rai sy’n ymwneud ag addysg yng Nghymru; rhaid inni fod yn oleuedig o ran sut yr ydym yn ymgynghori a chyda phwy, gan beidio â chyfyngu ar hynny.

In considering the statement, the main challenge may be the way in which the One Wales Government aims to deliver a strategic investment programme throughout Wales. As you have said, that means moving away from formula-based investment to needs-based investment. I have not compared notes with Andrew R.T. Davies, but he did raise important issues. How you go about interpreting needs is important, as well as how you consult on them. You are right to place an emphasis on being proactive, but that means that the consultation process will need to be effective and conducted correctly, and that it must include everyone who has an influence. It is not only the local education authorities that deal with education in Wales; we must be enlightened as to how we conduct our consultations and as regards our consultees, without restricting that work in any way.

Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Menter a Dysgu, ac ar ôl gwrando ar y cyfraniadau y prynhawn yma, gofynnaf ichi ystyried rhoi rôl i’r pwyllgor pan fyddwch yn trafod y rhaglen ddrafft ar gyfer ymgynghori, a hynny cyn ei chyhoeddi. Byddai hynny’n rhoi cyfle inni gael golwg ar yr hyn sydd gennych dan sylw, ac i graffu ar y rhaglen mewn ffordd adeiladol a buddiol, nid yn unig er budd Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un ond hefyd er budd pobl ifanc Cymru.

 

As Chair of the Enterprise and Learning Committee, and after listening to the contributions this afternoon, I ask you to consider giving the committee a role when you discuss the draft programme for consultation, before it is published. That would give us an insight as to what you have in mind, and give us an opportunity to scrutinise the programme in a constructive and beneficial way, to the benefit not only of the One Wales Government, but the young people of Wales.

Jane Hutt: Thank you for that contribution, in which you posed helpful questions. I valued the role of the Enterprise and Learning Committee, particularly the work that it did in looking at the consultation on the draft circular, because we are updating it to make it fit for purpose for the twenty-first century schools programme. That is part of the strategic lead that I am taking as a Minister. We have gained from the consultation that the committee has undertaken, while the chief inspector of schools gave us sharp reminders of the issues that we have to confront in his evidence to the committee. Therefore, I am sure that there is a further role for the committee as we take this programme forward.

Jane Hutt: Diolch am eich cyfraniad ac am godi cwestiynau buddiol. Gwerthfawrogais rôl y Pwyllgor Menter a Dysgu, yn enwedig y gwaith a wnaeth o ran edrych ar yr ymgynghoriad ar y cylchlythyr drafft, oherwydd yr ydym yn ei ddiweddaru i sicrhau ei fod yn addas i’r diben ar gyfer rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae hynny’n rhan o’r arweiniad strategol yr wyf fi’n ei roi fel Gweinidog. Yr ydym wedi elwa o’r ymgynghori a wnaeth y pwyllgor, tra cawsom ein hatgoffa’n ddiflewyn ar dafod gan brif arolygydd yr ysgolion o’r materion y mae’n rhaid inni eu hwynebu yn ei dystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor. Felly, yr wyf yn siŵr fod rôl bellach i’r pwyllgor wrth inni roi’r rhaglen hon ar waith.

The flat rate of £9 million that every local authority received and the formula-based allocation did not necessarily respond to need, and certainly not to project readiness. It also took some authorities a long time to get their asset management plans done.

Nid oedd y gyfradd unffurf o £9 miliwn a gafodd pob awdurdod lleol a’r dyraniad seiliedig ar fformiwla o reidrwydd yn ymateb i’r angen, ac yn sicr nid i’r parodrwydd i gynnal prosiect. Cymerodd amser maith hefyd i rai awdurdodau gwblhau eu cynlluniau rheoli asedau.

3.30 p.m.

 

We have only recently reached the stage where we have virtually all of the 22 authority asset management plans. We must ensure that we help local authorities get up to speed so that they can deliver plans that meet local needs and which do not disadvantage their communities. If an authority is not up to scratch in its asset or its business planning, we are going to put the expertise nationally into supporting those authorities to ensure that they are up to scratch. We do not want learners, communities and families to be disadvantaged as a result of the paucity of expertise or lack of vision of a local authority. We must bring every authority up to scratch, and that is why we must do this in partnership with the Welsh Local Government Association. That is about sharing good practice, as well as collaboration, and national and regional cross-boundary working, to ensure that authorities learn how to engage. Guidance in terms of consultation will come from the revised circular, but we must look to support, challenge, engage with and back each local authority, so that the robust plans are ready in order for me to make the allocations from the over £700 million that is available to us and from other sources.  

Newydd gael cynllun rheoli asedau gan bron pob un o’r 22 awdurdod lleol yr ydym. Mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn helpu awdurdodau lleol i fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith hwn er mwyn iddynt allu rhoi cynlluniau ar waith sy’n diwallu anghenion lleol heb roi cymunedau o dan anfantais. Os nad yw gwaith cynllunio asedau neu fusnes awdurdod o’r safon ddisgwyliedig, byddwn yn cefnogi awdurdodau yn genedlaethol drwy gynnig cymorth arbenigol er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn cyrraedd y safon. Nid ydym am weld dysgwyr, cymunedau a theuluoedd o dan anfantais oherwydd prinder cymorth arbenigol neu ddiffyg gweledigaeth ar ran awdurdod lleol. Mae’n rhaid inni helpu pob awdurdod i gyrraedd y safon ddisgwyliedig, a dyna paham y mae’n rhaid inni weithio ar y cyd â Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Mae a wnelo hynny â rhannu arferion da, ynghyd â chydweithio, a gweithio ar draws ffiniau yn genedlaethol ac yn rhanbarthol, er mwyn sicrhau bod awdurdodau’n dysgu sut i ymdrin â hyn. Bydd y cylchlythyr diwygiedig yn cynnig arweiniad ar ymgynghori, ond mae’n rhaid inni geisio cefnogi, herio a thrafod â phob awdurdod lleol, a bod yn gefn iddynt, fel bod y cynlluniau cadarn yn barod er mwyn imi wneud y dyraniadau o’r £700 miliwn a mwy sydd ar gael i ni ac o ffynonellau eraill.

Datganiad Deddfwriaethol am y Gorchymyn Cymhwysedd Deddfwriaethol Arfaethedig ynghylch yr Iaith Gymraeg
Legislative Statement on the Proposed Welsh Language Legislative Competence Order

The Record

Y Gweinidog dros Dreftadaeth (Alun Ffred Jones): Mae’n anrhydedd i gyflwyno’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig ynghylch yr iaith Gymraeg gerbron y Cynulliad heddiw. Mae hon yn garreg filltir bwysig yn hanes yr iaith ac yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn cytuno mai’r lle priodol i ddeddfu ym maes yr iaith Gymraeg yw Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Heddiw yw’r cyfle cyntaf i Aelodau’r Cynulliad drafod a chraffu ar ein Gorchymyn arfaethedig ynghylch yr iaith Gymraeg, a hynny, wrth gwrs, yn y Gymraeg, os dyna’u dymuniad.

The Minster for Heritage (Alun Ffred Jones): It is a pleasure to present the proposed Order on the Welsh language before the National Assembly today. This marks an important milestone in the history of the language. I am sure that you will agree that the National Assembly for Wales is the appropriate place to legislate on the Welsh language. Today is the first opportunity for Assembly Members to discuss and scrutinise our proposed Order on the language, and to do so in Welsh, of course, should they wish.

Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl cawsom drafodaeth galonogol ar yr iaith wrth ystyried cynnig David Melding am Orchymyn ynghylch yr iaith Gymraeg. Gobeithiaf ei fod yn cydnabod bod y Gorchymyn sydd gerbron y Cynulliad yn werth ei gefnogi a’i groesawu. Edrychaf ymlaen at gydweithio ag Aelodau, ac eraill sydd â diddordeb yn lles y Gymraeg, wrth graffu ar yr Gorchymyn arfaethedig ac wrth baratoi Mesur, maes o law, ar y Gymraeg. Mae rôl Gweinidogion Swyddfa Cymru wrth ddatblygu’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig wedi bod yn un allweddol, ac yr ydym yn barod i wynebu’r broses graffu ynghyd. Edrychaf ymlaen at gydweithio â’r swyddfa ac Aelodau Seneddol dros y misoedd nesaf, yn enwedig Cadeirydd ac aelodau’r Pwyllgor ar Faterion Cymreig.

A few weeks ago we had a heartening debate on the language, when considering David Melding’s proposal for an LCO on the language. I hope that he acknowledges that the LCO that is before the National Assembly today is worthy of support. I look forward to working with Members, and others with an interest in the health of the language, in scrutinising the proposed LCO and, in due course, preparing a Measure on the Welsh language. The role of Wales Office Ministers has been key to the development of the proposed LCO, and we are ready to face the scrutiny process together. I look forward to working closely with them and with Members of Parliament over the coming months, especially the Chair and members of the Welsh Affairs Committee.

Rhaid cofio mai cychwyn y broses yw’r cyhoeddi. Mae gwaith o’n blaen cyn bod cymhwysedd gan y Cynulliad i ddeddfu. Bydd digon o amser i drafod manylion sut mae hybu a hyrwyddo’r iaith, gan sicrhau nad yw hynny’n amharu ar hawliau siaradwyr Saesneg.

It must be remembered that publication is but the start of the process. There is work ahead before the Assembly achieves competence in this field. There will be many opportunities to discuss the details of how best to promote and facilitate the Welsh language, while ensuring that none of this subtracts from the rights of English speakers.

Y Gorchymyn yw’r mecanwaith i drosglwyddo’r pŵer i ddeddfu i’r Cynulliad. Mater i Fesur sy’n deillio o’r Gorchymyn, os caiff ei gymeradwyo, fydd creu’r strwythurau i gryfhau’r iaith drwy gadarnhau statws swyddogol ar gyfer y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg, drwy hawliau ieithyddol o safbwynt darparu gwasanaethau, a thrwy sefydlu comisiynydd iaith. Mae’n bwysig cofio y bydd y pŵer sy’n cael ei drosglwyddo yn un parhaol ac y bydd cyfleoedd i gyflwyno cyfres o Fesurau ar yr iaith yn sgîl y cymhwysedd—gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad neu gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, ni all y Cynulliad ddeddfu i newid na gwella’r system bresennol heb gael y Gorchymyn hwn er mwyn cael yr hawl i greu Mesur neu Fesurau.

The LCO is the mechanism for transferring competence to the National Assembly. It will be for a Measure derived from the LCO, should it be approved, to create structures to strengthen the language by confirming official status for both Welsh and English, by linguistic rights in the provision of services, and by establishing the post of language commissioner. It is important to remember that the power transferred is an enduring one and that there will be opportunities to present other Measures on the language following competence—by the Assembly Government or Assembly Members. However, there is no scope for the National Assembly to legislate to amend or improve the current system without this LCO to achieve the competence to create a Measure or Measures.

Gosododd Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 sail i ddechrau atgyfnerthu’r iaith, ond rhaid ystyried yn awr a yw’r fframwaith yn addas ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Dyma ein cyfle i ystyried pa wersi sydd wedi eu dysgu ers 1993 o ran prosesau a phwerau statudol y bwrdd a Gweinidogion. Mae’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn cynnig strwythur i ni ymateb i newidiadau ers 1993, a’r hyblygrwydd i ymateb i newidiadau yn y dyfodol. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried gwersi’r 16 mlynedd diwethaf wrth graffu ar y Gorchymyn arfaethedig a datblygu unrhyw Fesur sy’n deillio ohono. Ein hamcan yw moderneiddio a gwella’r fframwaith deddfwriaethol ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Bydd cyfle, maes o law, i bawb gymryd rhan yn y drafodaeth honno a dylanwadu ar ein cynigion.

The Welsh Language Act 1993 set the foundations to help improve the health of the language, but it is now time to consider whether that framework is appropriate for the twenty-first century. This is our chance to consider what lessons have been learned since 1993 in terms of processes, and the statutory functions of the board and of Ministers. The proposed Order provides us with an opportunity to establish a framework to respond to the changes that have occurred since 1993, and the flexibility to respond to changes in the future. It is important that we learn the lessons of the past 16 years in scrutinising this proposed LCO and in developing any Measure that is derived from it. Our aim is to modernise and improve the legislative framework for the language. There will be an opportunity for everyone to take part in that discussion on our proposals in due course.

Mae mwy o bobl bellach yn siarad neu’n dysgu Cymraeg, ond mae’n dal i fod yn fregus fel iaith bob dydd yn ein cymunedau. Mae nifer y siaradwyr yn cynyddu, yn enwedig ymhlith yr ifanc, ond mae’n hollbwysig bod gan siaradwyr y Gymraeg fwy o gyfleoedd i’w defnyddio y tu allan i giatiau’r ysgol. Ein bwriad wrth gyflwyno Mesur maes o law fydd creu’r strwythur i atgyfnerthu’r iaith.

More people now speak or are learning the language but its status as a living language in our communities is still fragile. The number of speakers is increasing, especially among the young, but it is imperative that Welsh speakers have more opportunities to use the language outside the school gates. Our aim, in introducing a Measure in due course, will be to create a structure to revitalise the language.

Mae’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn adlewyrchu ac yn adeiladu ar egwyddorion craidd Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993. Fel Deddf 1993, mae mater 20.1 yn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn cyfeirio at hybu a hwyluso’r iaith, a thrin y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg ar sail cydraddoldeb. Byddai’r mater hwn yn rhoi’r hyblygrwydd i’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu i gryfhau’r ystod eang o weithgareddau sydd eisoes yn bodoli i hybu’r iaith, er enghraifft, cynllunio ieithyddol, cynnig grantiau, buddsoddi mewn technoleg gwybodaeth a gweithio yn ein cymunedau. Nid yw mater 20.1 yn cyfeirio yn benodol at hawliau, statws na chomisiynydd iaith, ond mae’n cynnig mecanwaith fydd yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu, maes o law, i gyflawni’r ymrwymiadau hyn yn 'Cymru’n Un’. Byddai’r Gorchymyn yn galluogi’r Cynulliad yn y dyfodol i osod dyletswyddau ar ystod o bersonau sy’n darparu gwasanaethau allweddol i’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru.

The proposed LCO reflects and builds upon the core principles of the Welsh Language Act 1993. Like the 1993 Act, matter 20.1 in the proposed LCO refers to promoting and facilitating the language, and treating English and Welsh on the basis of equality. This matter would give the National Assembly the flexibility to legislate to maintain and strengthen the wide range of activities which currently support the language, for example, language planning, grants, investment in ICT and working in our communities. Matter 20.1 does not refer directly to rights, status or a language commissioner, but it provides the framework that would enable the National Assembly, in due course, to legislate to fulfil these 'One Wales’ commitments. The LCO would enable the National Assembly to place duties on a range of persons or bodies that provide key services to the public in Wales.

Mater i’r Cynulliad, drwy Fesur, fydd penderfynu ar natur y dyletswyddau a phwy fydd yn cael eu rhoi o dan ddyletswydd i ddarparu gwasanaethau Cymraeg o natur gyhoeddus. Wrth gwrs, mae hyn oll yn dibynnu ar gael cymhwysedd, a chymhwysedd addas, i ddeddfu yn y maes. Nid yw cynnig gwasanaethau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn beth newydd i’r rhan fwyaf o’r sectorau y byddai’r Cynulliad, pe bai’n dymuno, yn gallu gosod dyletswyddau arnynt yn y dyfodol, pe byddai’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn cael ei gymeradwyo. Mae’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn cynnig yr hyblygrwydd i’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu i ymateb i newidiadau i’r mecanweithiau ar gyfer cyflenwi gwasanaethau i’r cyhoedd mewn llawer o feysydd—[Torri ar draws.]

It will be for the National Assembly to determine, by means of a Measure, on the nature of those duties and who will be placed under a duty to provide Welsh-language services to the public. All this, of course, depends on the National Assembly gaining competence, and appropriate competence, to legislate in the field. The provision of services through the medium of Welsh is not new to the majority of sectors upon which the National Assembly could choose to impose duties, if the proposed Order were approved. Crucially, the proposed LCO provides the Assembly with the flexibility to legislate in response to changes to the mechanisms for providing services to the public in many fields—[Interruption.]

The Presiding Officer: Order. I want to hear this statement; it is very important to me.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Yr wyf am glywed y datganiad hwn; mae’n bwysig iawn i mi.

Alun Ffred Jones: Cychwynnaf y frawddeg eto er mwyn i bawb ddeall yn iawn yr hyn sy’n cael ei ddweud.

Alun Ffred Jones: I will begin the sentence again so that everyone can understand correctly what is being said.

Mae’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn cynnig yr hyblygrwydd i’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu i ymateb i newidiadau i’r mecanweithiau ar gyfer cyflenwi gwasanaethau i’r cyhoedd mewn llawer o feysydd, a’r disgresiwn i ymateb i gyrff newydd sydd yn gallu hybu’r iaith, fel y maent yn ymddangos.

The proposed LCO provides the Assembly with the flexibility to legislate in response to changes to the mechanisms for providing services to the public in many fields, and with the discretion to respond to new bodies that can promote the language, as they appear.

Mae darpariaeth bwysig hefyd yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu ar gyfer cyrff sy’n gwirfoddoli neu’n cytuno i dderbyn dyletswyddau o dan unrhyw Fesur, maes o law. Mae’n galonogol gweld cymaint o gyrff, yn enwedig yn y sector preifat, yn gwirfoddoli i wella gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg. Yr wyf am i hyn barhau.

A further important provision would enable the Assembly to legislate to allow bodies to volunteer or agree to accept duties under any future Measure. It is encouraging to see so many bodies, particularly within the private sector, volunteering to improve services in Welsh. I want this to continue.

Byddai mater 20.2 yn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hefyd yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu i sicrhau’r rhyddid, drwy Fesur maes o law, i unigolion siarad Cymraeg â’i gilydd. Mae hwn yn rhyddid sydd yn bodoli, ond bu’n fater o ansicrwydd. Mae’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn caniatáu i’r Cynulliad sefydlu sail statudol i Weinidogion y Goron gydymffurfio â dyletswyddau ieithyddol. Dyma sail statudol i’r dyletswyddau y maent yn eu hymarfer o’u gwirfodd ar hyn o bryd.

Matter 20.2 in the proposed LCO would enable the National Assembly to legislate to protect, through a future Measure, the freedom of individuals to speak Welsh with each other. This is a right that already exists, but which has been the subject of some uncertainty. The proposed LCO would allow the Assembly to establish a statutory basis for Ministers of the Crown to comply with linguistic duties, which they already do voluntarily at the moment.

Sylwch hefyd fod y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i ddeddfu o safbwynt Comisiwn y Cynulliad, y Cynulliad a Gweinidogion, a dyma’r lle priodol i wneud hynny.

The proposed LCO would also allow the Assembly to legislate in regard to the Assembly Commission, the Assembly and Ministers. The Assembly is the appropriate place to do this.

Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at gydweithio â chi er mwyn trosglwyddo’r pŵer i ddeddfu ar y Gymraeg o San Steffan i Gymru. Mae’r trafodaethau hyn yn dangos bod cefnogaeth amlwg yma a ledled y wlad i barhau i hybu a chryfhau’r iaith. Yr wyf yn benderfynol ein bod yn datblygu ac yn adeiladu ar y consensws hwn.

I am looking forward to working with you in order to transfer the power to legislate on the Welsh language from Westminster to Wales. Our discussions have indicated that there is a clear consensus here, and across the country, on continuing to promote and strengthen the language. I am determined to build on and reaffirm this consensus.

3.40 p.m.

 

Mae’r iaith Gymraeg yn rhan o’n hetifeddiaeth gymdeithasol a diwylliannol ni yng Nghymru. Mae’n destun balchder i ddinasyddion ein gwlad, pa un ai ydynt yn siaradwyr yr iaith ai peidio. Mae’n rhaid i ni ei thrysori hi, ei rhannu hi a hyrwyddo’i defnydd at y dyfodol. Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yn y Cynulliad yw gwneud hynny. Mae’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn gam pwysig ar daith gyfansoddiadol a ieithyddol y Cynulliad ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y pleidiau i gyd yn ei groesawu.

The Welsh language is part of the social and cultural inheritance of those of us who live in Wales. It is a matter of pride to the citizens of Wales, regardless of whether or not they speak Welsh. We have to treasure and share the language, and promote its use for the future. It is our responsibility in the Assembly to do so. The proposed LCO is an important step on a constitutional journey for the Welsh language and for this Assembly. I hope that it will be welcomed by all parties in this Assembly.

Paul Davies: Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am y datganiad pwysig hwn heddiw. Yr ydym i gyd wedi bod yn aros yn hir iawn am y cyhoeddiad hwn—datganiad, gyda llaw, a addawyd ym mlwyddyn gyntaf Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un. Yr wyf yn gobeithio’n fawr y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth newydd yn adeiladu ar y mesurau llwyddiannus a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraethau Ceidwadol yn y 1980au a’r 1990au. Yr wyf yn falch fod y cofnod a gyhoeddodd y Llywodraeth gyda’r datganiad ddoe yn cadarnhau’r llwyddiannau hynny.

Paul Davies: I thank the Minister for this important statement today. We have all waited a long time for its publication—a statement, by the way, that was promised in the first year of the One Wales Government. I very much hope that the new legislation will build upon the successful measures introduced by Conservative Governments in the 1980s and 1990s. I am pleased that the record that the Government published with the statement yesterday confirmed those successes.

Nid yw’r cyhoeddiad hwn ar hyn o bryd ond yn cadarnhau trosglwyddiad pŵer i ddeddfu dros yr iaith Gymraeg i’r lle hwn—rhywbeth yr ydym ni, fel yr wrthblaid swyddogol a’r grŵp Ceidwadol, yn cytuno ag ef yn unfrydol. Yr wyf yn cytuno â’r Gweinidog ei fod yn gwneud synnwyr i ni ddeddfu dros yr iaith Gymraeg yn y sefydliad hwn. Edrychwn ymlaen yn fawr at y Mesurau penodol y bydd y Llywodraeth yn eu cynnig yn y maes hwn yn y dyfodol agos. Byddwn yn ystyried y rhain yn fwy manwl pan gaiff y manylion eu cyflwyno ger ein bron.

This announcement currently only confirms a transfer of the power to legislate on the Welsh language to this place—something that we, as the official opposition and the Conservative group, agree with completely. I agree with the Minister that it makes sense that legislating on the Welsh language should be done by this institution. We look forward very much to the specific Measures that the Government will bring forward in this field in the near future. We will consider them in more detail when the details are placed before us.

O glywed y datganiad hwn heddiw, mae’n debyg y bydd y Llywodraeth yn edrych i greu gwir gydraddoldeb rhwng y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg a sicrhau y bydd y ddwy iaith yn derbyn statws swyddogol. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth yr wyf fi wedi bod yn ymgyrchu yn ei gylch am gyfnod maith. Yn wir, yr oedd hynny’n ymrwymiad yn ein maniffesto ar gyfer etholiadau’r Cynulliad yn 2007. Yn ogystal â bod yn symbolaidd, bydd hwn yn siŵr o gael effaith bositif ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Wrth roi statws swyddogol i’r ddwy iaith, a rhoi dewis i bobl felly, pa effaith ymarferol arall yn nhyb y Gweinidog a gaiff hyn i sicrhau fod y Gymraeg yn iaith fyw yn ein cymunedau?

Listening to this statement today, it seems that the Government will be looking to create true equality between Welsh and English and to ensure that both languages will get official status. That is something that I have been campaigning for for a long time. Indeed, that was a commitment in our manifesto for the 2007 Assembly elections. As well as being symbolic, this will also have a positive effect on the Welsh language. In giving both languages official status, and therefore choice to people, what other practical effect does the Minister think will this have to ensure that Welsh is a living language in our communities?

O’r cynlluniau hyn, mae’n glir y bydd y Llywodraeth yn creu comisiynydd iaith ac yr wyf yn siomedig bod y Llywodraeth wedi methu cefnogi’r cynnig am Orchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol fy nghyd-Aelod, David Melding, y llynedd. Fodd bynnag, yn yr amgylchiadau, a fyddai’r Gweinidog mor garedig â dweud wrthym pa gyfrifoldebau y mae e’n credu a fydd gan ddeiliad y swydd hon a beth fydd ei rôl ef neu hi? A fydd yn gweithredu ar hyd yr un llinellau â’r comisiynydd iaith yn Iwerddon, er enghraifft?

From these plans, it is clear that the Government will be creating the post of a language commissioner, and I am disappointed that the Government failed to support the proposal for a legislative competence Order put forward by my colleague, David Melding, last year. However, in the circumstances, will the Minister be so kind as to tell us what responsibilities he thinks that the post holder will have and what his or her role will be? Will that be along the same lines as the language commissioner in Ireland, for example?

O dan eich cynlluniau, mae’n debyg hefyd y bydd dyletswydd gan gwmnïau sy’n darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i ddarparu gwasanaethau dwyieithog. Os na fydd rhai o’r cwmnïau a sefydliadau hyn yn cydsynio ag ysbryd y ddeddfwriaeth newydd, pa bwerau a fydd gan y Llywodraeth i ddelio â hynny? Pa gamau fyddai’r Gweinidog am eu cymryd yn erbyn cwmnïau o’r fath? Yr wyf yn derbyn ichi ddweud yn eich datganiad mai mater i Fesur a fydd yn deillio o’r Gorchymyn a fydd yn creu’r strwythurau i gryfhau’r iaith, ond yr wyf yn sylwi ichi gynnwys yn eich datganiad ysgrifenedig ddoe gwmnïau carthffosiaeth yn eich diffiniad o gwmnïau sy’n darparu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus. Fel y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol, mae rhai cwmnïau carthffosiaeth bach iawn—unigolion, hyd yn oed—sy’n mynd o amgylch yn clirio carthffosydd. Yn yr amgylchiadau, a ydyw’r Gweinidog yn rhagweld y bydd y cynlluniau hyn yn effeithio busnesau a chwmnïau mor fach â hynny? Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Gweinidog yn cytuno y byddai gorfodi cwmnïau neu fusnesau bach i ddarparu gwasanaethau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn drychinebus o ran yr ymgyrch i ehangu’r iaith ac i greu Cymru wir ddwyieithog. Deallaf o’r datganiad fod y Llywodraeth yn bwriadu gorfodi unrhyw gwmni sy’n derbyn £200,000 neu fwy o arian cyhoeddus y flwyddyn i ddarparu ei wasanaethau yn ddwyieithog. A fydd hyn yn cynnwys pob cwmni preifat sy’n derbyn arian o’r fath neu a fydd cwmnïau gweddol fach yn cael eu hesgusodi? A fydd hyn ond yn effeithio ar gwmnïau sydd â chyfanswm busnes penodol, er enghraifft?

Under your plans, it seems that companies that provide public services will have a duty to provide bilingual services. If some of these companies and institutions do not conform with the spirit of the new legislation, what powers will the Government have to deal with that? What steps will the Minister take against such companies? I accept that you said in your statement that it will be for a Measure emanating from the LCO to create structures to strengthen the language, but I notice that your written statement yesterday included sewerage companies in your definition of companies that provide public services. As the Minister will be aware, there are some very small sewerage companies—individuals, even—who go around clearing drains. In the circumstances, does the Minister anticipate that these proposals will affect such small companies? I am sure that the Minister would agree that enforcing small companies or businesses to provide services through the medium of Welsh will have a devastating effect as regards the efforts to grow the language and create a truly bilingual Wales. I understand from the statement that the Government intends to force a company that receives £200,000 or more of public funds per annum to provide bilingual services. Will this include all private companies that accept these moneys, or will relatively small businesses be excluded? Will this only affect companies that have a certain turnover as regards its business, for example?

Ni allaf weld pwyslais ar addysg yn y cynlluniau hyn. A fyddai unrhyw Fesurau newydd o dan y pwerau hyn yn cael effaith ar ein sefydliadau addysgiadol? A yw’r Llywodraeth yn golygu cyflwyno Mesurau penodol yn y maes hwn?

I cannot see an emphasis on education in these plans. Will any new Measures under these plans affect our educational institutions? Is the Government planning on introducing any specific Measures in this field?

Fel mae’r Gweinidog wedi dweud eisoes, ni fydd unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth wrthi’i hun yn sicrhau bod y Gymraeg yn iaith fyw sy’n ffynnu yn ein cymunedau. A all y Gweinidog esbonio sut y byddai unrhyw Fesurau newydd yn sicrhau y bydd y Gymraeg yn iaith fyw yn ein cymunedau?

As the Minister has already said, a piece of legislation will not, in itself, keep the Welsh language alive or ensure that it prospers in our communities. Can the Minister explain how any new Measures will ensure that Welsh is a living language in our communtities?

Mae’r wrthblaid swyddogol yn croesawu’r datganiad ac yn gobeithio y bydd y Mesurau y bydd y Llywodraeth yn eu cyflwyno yn y dyfodol agos yn creu Cymru wirioneddol ddwyieithog. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

The official opposition welcomes the statement and hopes that the Measures that the Government introduces in the near future will create a truly bilingual Wales. [Applause.]

Alun Ffred Jones: Diolch i Paul am y sylwadau hynny. Yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr ei ddatganiad y bydd yr wrthblaid yn cefnogi’r cynlluniau hyn sydd wedi’u hamlinellu. Credaf fod hwnnw’n gam mawr ymlaen, ac mae’n tanlinellu yr hyn yr oeddwn yn ei ddweud yn y datganiad, sef bod consensws o leiaf ar ddatganoli’r pwerau i ni. Pa wahaniaethau bynnag a fydd rhyngom maes o law wrth inni drafod Mesurau, mae’n bwysig bod cymaint o unoliaeth â phosibl yma o ran y syniad o ddatganoli’r pwerau i’r Cynulliad. Efallai mai honno yw neges bwysicaf y drafodaeth hon, er gwaethaf y cwestiynau eraill sydd gan bobl.

Alun Ffred Jones: I thank Paul for his comments. I welcome his declaration that the opposition will support the plans that have been outlined. It is a major step forward and it emphasises what I said in today’s statement: that there is at least a consensus on devolving the relevant powers to us. Regardless of any differences that may emerge as we discuss Measures, it is important that there is as much unity as possible on the devolution of powers to the Assembly. Perhaps that is the most important message in this debate, notwithstanding the other questions that people may have.

Yr wyf hefyd yn hapus i ddatgan bod y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn yn adeiladu ar seiliau Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993, ac yr wyf yn cydnabod y gwaith a wnaeth Wyn Roberts ac eraill yn y cyfnod hwnnw i baratoi’r Ddeddf bwysig honno. Felly, nid oes gennyf broblem yn canmol y gwaith a wnaed ar yr adeg honno, yn enwedig os yw hynny’n gwneud i chi deimlo’n well.

I am also happy to declare that the proposed Order builds upon the foundations of the Welsh Language Act 1993, and I acknowledge the work that Wyn Roberts and others carried out during that period in preparation for that important Act. Therefore, I have no problem in praising the work that was carried out at that time, especially if it makes you feel better.

Yr wyf wedi delio â throsglwyddo pwerau, ac yr wyf yn ceisio cofio’r cwestiynau eraill. Bu i chi ofyn am Fesurau. Gadewch imi fod yn glir: rhaid inni gael cytundeb i drosglwyddo’r pwerau yn gyntaf, ac felly rhaid mynd drwy’r broses honno—a gobeithio na fydd hi’n broses hir. Os bydd ewyllys da a theimlad o unoliaeth am yr hyn a geir yn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig, gallwn ddechrau ar y broses swyddogol o greu Mesurau yn fuan. Fodd bynnag, bydd gwaith yn mynd rhagddo yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, ac yr wyf yn ddigon parod i gynnal deialog gyda’r gwrthbleidiau i gyd ar natur y Mesurau arfaethedig hynny.

I have dealt with the transfer of powers, and I am trying to remember the other questions. You asked about Measures. Let me be clear on this point: first of all, it must be agreed that those powers will be transferred, and thus we must go through that process—hopefully it will not be too long a process. If there is good will and unity on the contents of the proposed Order, we will soon be able to commence the official process of creating Measures. However, work will be undertaken during that period and I am willing to discuss the nature of the proposed Measures with the opposition parties.

Cwestiwn anodd iawn oedd hwnnw yn gofyn am effaith ymarferol rhoi statws swyddogol i’r Gymraeg. Gobeithiaf y bydd hwnnw’n rhoi hyder i bobl ddefnyddio eu Cymraeg mewn sefyllfaoedd gwahanol ac i fynnu eu hawliau, ond amser a ddengys yr union ganlyniadau. Credaf ei fod yn osodiad pwysig i’w wneud, fodd bynnag, a hynny yn seicolegol.

You asked a difficult question about the practical impact of conferring official status on the Welsh language. I hope that it will give people the confidence to use their Welsh in various situations and to insist that their rights are upheld, but time will tell exactly what its impact will be. However, I think that it is an important statement to make, in psychological terms.

Bu ichi ofyn am swydd y comisiynydd. Yr wyf wedi cyfarfod â chomisiynydd Iwerddon ac, yn y bôn, swydd ein comisiynydd ni fyddai gwarchod yr hawliau a nodir yn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig. Byddai’n gwneud hynny gan fwyaf yn anffurfiol, fe dybiwn, yn hytrach na chwilio am gosb neu drwy erlyn. Byddai union natur y comisiwn a’r comisiynydd i’w benderfynu gan Fesur. Mae hynny hefyd yn wir am sut i ddelio ag unrhyw gyrff sy’n torri’r amodau.

You asked about the role of commissioner. I have met with the Irish language commissioner and, essentially, our commissioner’s role would be to safeguard the rights outlined in the proposed Order. It would primarily be done in an informal way, rather than through punishment or prosecution. The exact nature of the commission and the commissioner’s role will be determined by Measure. That is also true of how to deal with bodies that disobey the conditions that have been set out.

Bu ichi sôn am greu Cymru wirioneddol ddwyieithog. Gwnaed gosodiad yn 'Iaith Pawb’, a hefyd ers hynny, ein bod yn ceisio creu Cymru ddwyieithog y mae ei phobl yn rhydd i fyw eu bywydau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg neu’r Saesneg neu gymysgedd o’r ddwy iaith. Fodd bynnag, ni allant wneud hynny os nad yw’r gwasanaethau ar gael yn y ddwy iaith. Yr hyn a geisiwn yw sicrhau bod cynifer â phosibl o’r gwasanaethau a gynigir i’r cyhoedd ar gael yn y ddwy iaith, a’u bod yn dod yn rhan naturiol o fywyd fel y gallwn gynyddu’r defnydd a wneir ohonynt.

You mentioned the creation of a truly bilingual Wales. A statement was made in 'Iaith Pawb’, and it has been repeated since, that we are trying to create a bilingual Wales where people are free to live their lives through the medium of Welsh or English or a mixture of both. However, they cannot do so if services are not available in both languages. We are trying to ensure that as many public services as possible are available in both languages, and that they become a natural part of life so they are used on a more frequent basis.

3.50 p.m.

 

Bu i chi ofyn am addysg, ond nid yw’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn yn gofyn am gymhwysedd ym maes addysg; mae hynny’n fater i Fesurau. Mae strategaeth addysg Gymraeg wrthi’n cael ei pharatoi ar hyn o bryd, a chaiff weld golau dydd yn y gwanwyn. Gallwn gael trafodaeth yr adeg honno am ddatblygu’r ddarpariaeth ym maes addysg Gymraeg, sy’n hanfodol os ydym am greu yr hyn yr ydym yn sôn amdano, sef Cymru ddwyieithog. Drwy gyfrwng addysg y gallwn roi’r gallu i’n plant a’n pobl ifanc feistroli’r Gymraeg, os dyna eu dymuniad.

You asked about education, but the proposed Order does not seek competence in the field of education; that is a matter for Measures. A Welsh language education strategy is being prepared at the moment, and it will be available in the spring. We can have a discussion at that point about developing educational provision in the field of Welsh language education, which is crucial if we wish to create a bilingual Wales, as we have been talking about. Through education we can give our children and young people the opportunity to master the Welsh language, if they so wish.

Yr wyf yn croesawu tôn datganiad Paul, a gobeithiaf y bydd yr ysbryd hwnnw yn parhau wrth inni gynnal ein trafodaethau yn ystod y misoedd nesaf.

I welcome the tone of Paul’s contribution and I hope that the same spirit will remain as we continue with our discussions over the ensuing months.

Alun Davies: Hoffwn ychwanegu at y consensws drwy groesawu’r datganiad a’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig y bu ichi ei gyhoeddi ddoe. Mae’n bwysig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn deddfu am faterion yr iaith. Os oes gennym Gynulliad am unrhyw reswm, rhaid mai deddfu dros yr iaith yw un o’i brif ddibenion. Croesawaf y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth yn symud ymlaen i ychwanegu at y pwerau sydd gennym i ddeddfu yn y maes hwn. Bydd croeso gwresog ar draws y pleidiau i hyn, ac, fel y bu ichi ddweud, Weinidog, pa drafodaeth bynnag a gawn yn y dyfodol am gynnwys unrhyw Fesur, ceir yma gytundeb llwyr mai’r Cynulliad ddylai ddeddfu am y mater. Os dechreuwn ar y sail honno, bydd y drafodaeth a gawn yn fwy cadarnhaol ac adeiladol nag unrhyw drafodaeth yn unman arall.

Alun Davies: I would like to add to the consensus by welcoming the statement and the proposed Order that you published yesterday. It is important that the National Assembly for Wales legislates on matters relating to the Welsh language. If we have an Assembly for any reason, it must be to legislate on the Welsh language. I welcome the fact that the Government is progressing towards adding to the powers that we have to legislate in this field. This will be warmly welcomed by all political parties and, as you said, Minister, no matter what discussions we have in the future about the content of any Measure, we are in unanimous agreement that the Assembly should legislate on this issue. If we start on that basis, the ensuing discussion will be more positive and constructive than any other discussion.

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r ffaith mai pwrpas y Gorchymyn yw hyrwyddo’r defnydd o’r Gymraeg. Gwyddom oll y bydd y Gymraeg yn ffynnu os ydym yn hyrwyddo’r defnydd a wneir ohoni, ac yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith bod y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn dweud mor gadarnhaol o’r dechrau mai ei bwrpas yw hyrwyddo’r defnydd a wneir o’r Gymraeg.

I also welcome the fact that the purpose of the Order is to promote Welsh language use. We all know that the Welsh language will prosper if we promote its use, and I welcome the fact that the proposed Order clearly states from the outset that its purpose is to promote the use of the Welsh language.

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu datganiad eglur y Gweinidog y bydd gan y ddwy iaith statws cwbl gyfartal yng Nghymru o hyn ymlaen. Nid wyf erioed wedi deall yn iawn beth mae 'statws swyddogol’ yn ei olygu. Er hynny, yr wyf yn hapus iawn i’w gefnogi. Mae cael statws gyfartal i’r ddwy iaith yn bwysicach nag unrhyw ddatganiad am statws swyddogol.

I also welcome the Minister’s clear declaration that the two languages will be completely equal in status from now on. I have never fully understood what 'official status’ means. Nonetheless, I am happy to support it. Securing an equal status for both languages is more important than any statement on equal status.

Yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith y buoch mor agored wrth ddweud y byddech yn creu cyfleoedd i drafod sut i symud ymlaen gyda’r Mesurau a fydd yn dilyn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn yn y dyfodol agos, gobeithio. Edrychaf ymlaen at y drafodaeth genedlaethol y byddwn yn ei chael yn hynny o beth.

I welcome the fact that you were so open in sating that you would create opportunities to discuss how to progress with the Measures that would hopefully emerge from the proposed Order in the near future. I look forward to the national debate that will take place, in that regard.

Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn dysgu gwersi Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 ac yn sicrhau y bydd unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth a ddaw yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf yn gosod sail gadarn ar gyfer defnyddio’r Gymraeg yn y gymuned. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r hyn a ddywedodd Paul Davies yn hynny o beth, oherwydd mae’n bwysig bod y Gymraeg yn iaith fyw yn ein cymunedau, ac nid yn iaith a welwch mewn dogfennau swyddogol yn unig. Mae’n bwysig bod pobl o bob cwr o’r wlad yn gweld bod ganddynt gyfle i ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg.

I hope that we will learn the lessons of the Welsh Language Act 1993 and ensure that any legislation that comes forward over the next year will provide a firm basis for using Welsh in the community. I welcome what Paul Davies said about this issue, since it is important that Welsh is a living language in our communities and not a language that is only to be seen in official documents. It is important that people from all parts of Wales feel that there are opportunities to use the Welsh language.

Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, croesawaf hefyd fod y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn nodi’r hawl a’r rhyddid i ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg. Un o’r pethau mwyaf anodd ei dderbyn yn ystod ein trafodaethau am yr iaith dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf oedd gweld Cymry Cymraeg yn cael eu rhwystro rhag defnyddio’r Gymraeg neu yn peidio â chael yr hawl i siarad Cymraeg. Mae hynny’n hurt ac yn gwbl annerbyniol yng Nghymru heddiw. Rhaid inni gael y rhyddid i ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg ac mae’n bwysig ein bod yn dweud hynny yn glir yn y datganiad hwn.

In that context, I also welcome the fact that the proposed Order includes the right to use Welsh and the freedom to do so. One of the most difficult things to accept during our debates on the Welsh language over recent years was seeing Welsh-speakers being prevented from using the Welsh language or not being given the right to speak Welsh. That is ludicrous and unacceptable in today’s Wales. We must have the freedom to use Welsh and it is important that this is made clear in this statement.

Yr wyf hefyd yn falch bod y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn rhoi digon o hyblygrwydd i’r Llywodraeth allu symud ymlaen yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf heb orfod dychwelyd i San Steffan i ofyn am fwy o rymoedd yn fuan iawn. Mae’n bwysig sicrhau bod gennym gyfle i sefydlu cynlluniau iaith, yr hawl i gynnig grantiau, i fuddsoddi ac i weithio yn ein cymunedau. Yr wyf yn falch bod y rheiny oll yn bosibl o dan y ddeddfwriaeth a ddaw yn sgîl  y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn.

I am also pleased that the proposed Order allows the Government sufficient flexibility to progress over the ensuing years without having to return to Westminster to ask for more powers in the near future. We must ensure that we have the opportunity to set up language schemes, to offer grants, to invest and to work in out communities. I am pleased that this is all possible under the legislation that would follow this proposed Order.  

Mae hefyd yn bwysig ein bod yn sicrhau, wrth symud ymlaen i ddeddfu, fod consensws a chefnogaeth ar draws y pleidiau, ar draws Cymru, ac ar draws ein cymunedau. Weinidog, wrth ichi symud y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn drwy’r Cynulliad a thrwy San Steffan ac wedyn wrth symud ymlaen i ddeddfu, gobeithiaf y bydd y consensws hwnnw’n un cadarn ac yn ein huno fel cenedl. Mawr obeithiaf y bydd y Gorchymyn arfaethedig a’r Mesurau a ddaw yn ei sgîl  yn uno pawb ohonom drwy hyrwyddo dyfodol disglair i’r iaith a sicrhau ei ffyniant.

It is also important to ensure, as we move on to legislate, that there is consensus and support across the political parties, across Wales and across our communities. Minister, as you move this proposed Measure through the Assembly and Westminster, and as you then move to legislate, I hope that the consensus is robust and that it will unite us as a nation. I hope that the proposed Order and the ensuing Measures will unite each and every one of us by promoting a bright future for the language and safeguarding its prosperity.

Alun Ffred Jones: Yr wyf yn teimlo fel dweud 'Amen’ ac eistedd i lawr oherwydd nid oes llawer imi ei ychwanegu at hynny, Alun.

Alun Ffred Jones: I feel like saying 'Amen’ and sitting down because I cannot add much to Alun’s words.

Mae’r pwynt am gytundeb a chonsensws yn bwysig. Beth bynnag a ddaw o drafodaethau a dadleuon y dyfodol, mae’n bwysig bod neges y Cynulliad o safbwynt hyrwyddo’r defnydd o’r Gymraeg yn unol fel nad ydym yn gadael i’r iaith fynd eto yn destun ymrafael. Mae’r iaith yn rhan hanfodol o’n hunaniaeth fel pobl, a dyna ein pwynt gwerthu unigryw o safbwynt ein delwedd yn y byd. Yn yr ystyr honno, credaf y dylem ei marchnata’n fywiog ac mewn ffordd falch.

The point about agreement and consensus is important. Regardless of what might emerge from discussions and debates in the future, it is important that the Assembly conveys an united message in relation to the promotion of Welsh language use, so that the language does not become a matter of dispute. The language is a crucial part of our identity as a people, and that is our unique selling point as regards our global image. In that sense, we should market Wales in a lively and proud manner.

Mae hefyd yn bwysig wrth greu Mesur neu Fesurau arfaethedig am yr iaith i sylweddoli mai cam yn unig yw creu deddfwriaeth. Ni ddaw yr un siaradwr Cymraeg ychwanegol o ganlyniad i ddeddfwriaeth, ac ni fydd neb o reidrwydd yn gwneud mwy o ddefnydd o’r Gymraeg wythnos ar ôl creu cyfraith. Rhan o raglen gynhwysfawr yn unig ydyw, sy’n cynnwys y byd addysg a meysydd llai amlwg, a hynny er mwyn magu hyder pobl sy’n siarad Cymraeg yn barod i’w defnyddio a chreu awydd mewn pobl i’w dysgu ac wedyn i’w defnyddio.

As we create a proposed Measure or Measures

on the language, we must realise that the creation of legislation is only a step in the process. Not a single Welsh speaker will be created as a result of legislation, and it is not necessarily the case that Welsh language use will increase a week after a law is created. It is part of a comprehensive programme, which includes education and less obvious areas, to give Welsh speakers the confidence to use Welsh and to make people keen to learn the language and to use it.

Yr oeddwn ym Merthyr Tudful bore ddoe yn lansio’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn gyda chriw o ddysgwyr. Yr oedd yn ddiddorol iawn clywed profiadau’r bobl hynny. Mae tua 18 ohonynt yn dod o flaenau’r Cymoedd, ac mae rhai wedi dychwelyd i’r ardal. Yr oeddent mor falch eu bod wedi meddiannu—neu adfeddiannu—y Gymraeg, a chefais fy atgoffa pa mor bwysig yw’r iaith i bobl nad ydynt wedi ei siarad o’r blaen ond sy’n gweld ei gwerth hi am yr hyn y mae hi. Yr oedd yn ysbrydoliaeth i mi. Rhaid cadw hynny mewn cof wrth inni greu’r deddfau hynny fydd yn sylfaen i’r cyfan y mae angen ei wneud.

Yesterday morning, I was in Merthyr Tydfil, launching the proposed Order with a group of Welsh learners. It was interesting to hear about their experiences. Around 18 of them are from the heads of the Valleys, and some have returned to the area. They were so pleased that they had learnt—or relearnt—Welsh, and I was reminded of how important the languages is to people who have never spoken the language but can see its value for what it is. That was an inspiration for me. We must bear that in mind as we create the legislation that will form the basis for all that needs to be done.

4.00 p.m.

 

Cyfeiriaf at fater arall yr ydych wedi sôn amdano, sef hyblygrwydd o fewn y Gorchymyn i’r dyfodol. Efallai y bydd y Torïaid yn falch o glywed hyn. Pwrpas rhestr o gategorïau yw gofalu y bydd dyfodol. Os bydd newid yn y ffordd y mae gwasanaethau’n cael eu cynnig, dywedwch eu bod yn cael eu preifateiddio, neu os bydd newid a fydd yn golygu bod y corff a gynigiodd y gwasanaeth yn y gorffennol yn symud i gwmni neu gorff arall, bydd yn ofynnol arno gynnig y gwasanaeth hwnnw’n ddwyieithog wrth ymdrin â’r cyhoedd. Bydd y gwasanaeth hwnnw’n aros yno er bod yr enw, y strwythur neu’r mecanwaith wedi newid. Mae’n eithriadol o bwysig bod gennym Orchymyn â hawliau a phwerau sy’n ddigon eang i allu delio â’r fath newidiadau, fel nad ydym yn gorfod mynd yn ôl drwy’r broses lafurus hon o gael pwerau. Gyda hynny o eiriau, mi dawelaf.

I will refer to another point that you raised, on flexibility within the Order for the future. The Tories may be pleased to hear this. The reason for having a list of categories is to ensure that there is a future. If there is a change in the way in which services are offered, say that they are privatised, or if there is a change that means that the company formerly responsible for providing the service moves to another company or organisation, it will be required to provide that service bilingually in its dealings with the public. That service will remain even though the name, structure or mechanism has changed. It is vital that we have an Order with rights and powers that are wide enough to be able to deal with such changes, so that we do not have to revisit this laborious process of gaining powers. With those few words, I close.

Eleanor Burnham: Ar ran y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, croesawaf y datganiad hanesyddol bwysig hwn am yr iaith Gymraeg. Diolchaf yn bersonol i’r Gweinidog am wneud ei orau i fod yn agored ac am roi eglurhad ymlaen llaw.

Eleanor Burnham: On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I welcome this historic statement on the Welsh language. I personally thank the Minister for doing his best to be open and for providing an explanation beforehand.

Mae’r daith wedi bod yn hir, ac yr ydym wedi disgwyl am beth amser. Weinidog, sut y gwelwch y dyfodol? Sawl cam a faint o amser sydd eisiau i gwblhau’r gwaith? Mae llawer o bryderon, ac yr wyf wedi cael amryw o e-byst dros y dyddiau diwethaf yn ein hannog i gwblhau’r gwaith hwn cyn gynted â phosibl.

The road has been long, and we have waited a long time. Minister, how do you see the future? How much time and how many steps are needed to complete the work? There are many concerns, and I have received many e-mails over the last few days encouraging us to complete the work as quickly as possible.

Sut a phryd y byddwch yn sefydlu’r hawl i ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg yn y llysoedd ac yn y gyfundrefn gyfreithiol? Mae hynny’n destun pryder i lawer o bobl. Hoffwn wybod sut y bydd hynny’n cael ei ddiweddaru.

How and when will you secure the right to use the Welsh language in the courts and in the legal system? That is a cause of concern for many people. I would like to know how that will be dealt with.

Sut y gallwch wneud eich gorau i ddefnyddio, fel y dywedasoch, yr 'USP’ hwn i farchnata Cymru? Mae llawer wedi bod yn pryderu’n ormodol yn ddiweddar ynglŷn â’r cymhlethdod, ac yr wyf yn ffyddiog y gallwch ddweud wrthym sut y gallwch symleiddio pethau a galluogi pobl i weld pa mor syml yw’r broses. Mae llawer o bobl yn pryderu am fusnesau; gobeithio y gallwch ein helpu drwy ddweud beth fydd bwrdd yr iaith yn gallu ei wneud. Yr wyf wedi bod yn ceisio egluro wrth rai pobl y gall bwrdd yr iaith helpu a chefnogi busnesau bach. A ydych yn credu bod pobl yn pryderu’n ormodol ynglŷn â busnesau bach? Mae’n amser anodd iddynt, ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y gallwch ateb y cwestiynau hyn, gan fod pobl eisiau gwybod ein bod yn gwneud ein gorau.

How can you do your best, as you said, to use this 'USP’ to market Wales? Many people have been overly worried about the complexity, and I am confident that you can tell us how you can simplify matters and enable people to see how simple the process really is. Many people are worried about businesses; I hope that you can help us by saying what the language board can do. I have been trying to explain to people that the language board can help and support small businesses. Do you believe that people are overly worried about small businesses? It is a difficult time for them, and I hope that you can answer these questions, as people need to know that we are doing our best.

Yn bersonol, cefais dipyn o hwb o ran defnyddio’r Gymraeg gyda Nwy Prydain, sy’n cyflenwi trydan imi. Yr wyf wedi cael gwasanaeth da iawn. Llongyfarchaf Nwy Prydain, gan fod defnyddio’r Gymraeg gyda’r cwmni yn haws na defnyddio Saesneg. Weinidog, sut y byddwch yn sicrhau bod busnesau’n caniatáu inni i gyd ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg, heb effeithio’n negyddol arnynt?

Personally, I was given quite a boost in using the Welsh language with British Gas, which supplies my electricity. I have had very good service. I congratulate British Gas, as using the Welsh language has been easier than using English with the company. Minister, how will you ensure that businesses allow us all to use the Welsh language, without its having a negative effect on them?

Credaf fod consensws yma; yr ydym wedi bod yn trafod hybu’r iaith Gymraeg ers blynyddoedd, yma ac ar faes yr eisteddfod genedlaethol. Gwnaeth ein cyn Weinidog, Jenny Randerson, ei gorau ar ein rhan, ac yr ydym bob amser wedi cael consensws yng nghynadleddau’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ar y mater. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at gael ateb i’r cwestiynau llosg hyn, ond ar y cyfan, croesawaf y ffaith bod y Gweinidog yn gweithio’n ddiwyd. Pob lwc i bob un ohonom wrth inni wneud ein gorau dros ein hiaith.

I believe that there is consensus here; we have been discussing the promotion of the Welsh language for years, here and on the national eisteddfod maes. The former Minister, Jenny Randerson, did her best on our behalf, and we have always had consensus on this issue in Liberal Democrat conferences. I look forward to hearing the answers on these burning issues, but, on the whole, I welcome the fact that the Minister has been working so conscientiously. I wish us all good luck as we do our best for our language.

Alun Ffred Jones: Diolch yn fawr am eich cefnogaeth, Eleanor. Bu’n broses hir a hoffwn dalu teyrnged i staff Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a Swyddfa Cymru am y gwaith mawr a wnaethant i ddwyn y Gorchymyn hwn ger ein bron. Mae’r Gorchymyn yn ganlyniad gwaith manwl a thrylwyr iawn, fel y byddech yn disgwyl wrth greu unrhyw fath o ddeddfwriaeth. Mae’r arbenigedd sydd gennym ac yr ydym yn ei ddatblygu ar hyn o bryd yn cael ei werthfawrogi’n fawr gennyf, fel lleygwr yn y maes.

Alun Ffred Jones: Thank you for your support, Eleanor. It has been a long process, and I would like to pay tribute to the Assembly Government and Wales Office staff for all the work that they did in bringing this Order before us. The Order is the result of detailed and thorough work, as you would expect with the formation of any legislation. As a lay person, I sincerely appreciate the expertise that we already have and that we are developing.

O ran yr amserlen i’r dyfodol, mae proses yn ei lle a bydd gwaith craffu yn digwydd yma ac yn San Steffan, a bydd tystiolaeth yn cael ei chasglu fel rhan o’r gwaith hwnnw. Yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd pawb yn gwneud eu gwaith yn broffesiynol a chydag ewyllys da. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwn yn gallu cael Mesurau ar waith cyn diwedd tymor y Llywodraeth hwn—dyna yw ein bwriad.

In terms of a timetable for the future, there is a process in place and scrutiny work will take place here and in Westminster, and evidence will be taken as part of that work. I am confident that everyone involved will work professionally and with good will. I am sure that we will be able to put Measures in place before the end of this Government’s term of office—that is our intention.

O ran y llysoedd, nid ydynt o fewn cwmpawd y Gorchymyn hwn, gan nad ydynt o fewn cwmpawd Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Felly, nid ydynt yn berthnasol i’r Gorchymyn hwn.

The courts do not fall within the scope of the Order, as they do not fall within the scope of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Therefore, they are not relevant to this Order.

Bu i chi sôn am fyd busnes ac ati. Y ffaith amdani yw nad yw’r sector preifat, ar y cyfan, yn syrthio o fewn cwmpawd y Gorchymyn. Datblygwyd trefn gan fwrdd yr iaith sy’n annog cwmnïau a busnesau i ddatblygu polisïau ynglŷn â’r Gymraeg yn wirfoddol er mwyn gallu cynnig gwasanaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Bu honno’n eithriadol o lwyddiannus, ac yn gynyddol felly. Y llynedd, credaf fod dros 40 o gwmnïau wedi dod o dan gwmpawd Deddf Iaith Gymraeg 1993, ac, eleni, drwy hybu cynllun newydd, mae rhyw 140 o gwmnïau wedi dangos diddordeb mewn cydweithio gyda bwrdd yr iaith i ddatblygu cynlluniau iaith o fewn gwahanol feysydd. Mae hynny’n dangos i mi fod ton o ewyllys da tuag at y Gymraeg, efallai, ac o fewn byd busnes yn benodol. Gwn fod pryderon wedi cael eu codi, ond yn sicr nid yw’r Gorchymyn yn berthnasol i fusnesau bach ar hyn o bryd.

You mentioned businesses and so on. The fact of the matter is that the private sector, on the whole, does not fall within the scope of the Order. The language board has established a system of encouraging companies and businesses to voluntarily develop language policies in order to be able to provide services through the medium of Welsh. That has been extremely successful, increasingly so. Last year, I believe that 40 companies came under the scope of the Welsh Language Act 1993, and, this year, by promoting a new scheme, some 140 companies have expressed an interest in working with the language board to develop language schemes in different fields. That demonstrates a wave of good will towards the Welsh language, perhaps, particularly within the business world. I know that concerns have been expressed, but the Order definitely does not deal with small businesses at present.

Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i’r cwmnïau hynny sydd wedi datblygu eu gwaith yn ddwyieithog ac sydd bellach yn cynnig gwasanaeth dwyieithog trylwyr wrth ymdrin â’r cyhoedd. Dyna sy’n bwysig. Yr ydym yn sôn am sut mae cwmnïau yn ymdrin â’r cyhoedd; nid ydym yn sôn am sut y maent yn gweithredu’n fewnol—mae hynny y tu hwnt i ddylanwad y Llywodraeth ac yn sicr y tu hwnt i sgôp y Gorchymyn hwn. Yr wyf yn meddwl am gwmnïau megis Dŵr Cymru a BT, a fu’n flaengar iawn yn y maes hwn. Mewn gwirionedd, dylid eu defnyddio fel esiamplau y gall cwmnïau eraill eu hefelychu. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol y bu hynny’n broses afresymol o ddrud iddynt ac, yn fwy na hynny, mae wedi eu galluogi i gynnig gwell gwasanaeth i gwsmeriaid, a dyna sy’n bwysig. Os yw cwsmeriaid yn dymuno defnyddio gwasanaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, dylai fod ar gael iddynt, cyn belled â bod hynny o fewn cwmpawd y Gorchymyn.

I would like to pay tribute to the companies that have developed their work bilingually and which now offer wide-ranging bilingual services in their dealings with their customers. That is the important point. We are talking about how customers deal with the public; we are not talking about their internal operations—that is beyond the Government’s influence and is certainly beyond the scope of this Order. I am thinking of companies such as Welsh Water and BT, which have been at the forefront of this work. They should, in fact, be held up as examples for other companies to emulate. I have not heard that it was unreasonably costly for them to do the work; it has, in fact, enabled them to provide a better service to their customers, which is the important point to make. If customers want a Welsh-medium service, it should be available for them, as long as it falls within the scope of this Order.

Bethan Jenkins: Diolch am y datganiad, Weinidog. Hoffwn gymryd y cyfle hwn i longyfarch y Llywodraeth am gyflwyno’r Gorchymyn hwn. Mae’r datganiad heddiw yn un hanesyddol ac yn un sy’n rhoi sylwedd i statws yr iaith fel un o ieithoedd swyddogol ein gwlad.

Bethan Jenkins: Thank you for the statement, Minister. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Government for bringing forward this Order. Today’s statement is historic, giving the Welsh language significant status as one of the official languages of our country.

Yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr iawn y bwriad i benodi comisiynydd iaith, sy’n gam y mae Plaid Cymru wedi dadlau o’i blaid ers peth amser ac a fydd, os caiff ei wireddu, yn helpu i sicrhau cysondeb o ran polisïau iaith ac yn rhoi llais i siaradwyr Cymraeg ar lefel gyhoeddus.

I warmly welcome the intention to appoint a language commissioner; Plaid Cymru has been arguing for this for some time, and, if realised, it will help to ensure consistency in language policies and give Welsh speakers a public voice.

Mae ehangu’r hyn a ddisgwylir gan gyrff cyhoeddus hefyd yn bwysig. Bydd y Gorchymyn hwn yn gosod disgwyliadau cyfreithiol ar gwmnïau sy’n darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i drin y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg yn gyfartal ac i sicrhau dewis go iawn i bobl o ran pa iaith y maent yn dewis ei defnyddio.

Expanding what is expected of public bodies is also important. This Order will place a legal expectation on companies that provide public services to treat the Welsh and English languages equally and to ensure that people have a real choice in terms of which language to use.

4.10 p.m.

 

Mae mater o egwyddor yn ganolog i fanylion y Gorchymyn hwn, sef yr egwyddor syml ond pellgyrhaeddol y dylai fod gan bawb yr hawl i ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg. Os caiff y Gorchymyn ei wireddu, ni fydd gan unrhyw gwmni, er enghraifft, yr hawl i rwystro ei staff rhag cyfathrebu yn eu mamiaith. Ni fydd lle i fwlio megis yr hyn a ddigwyddodd gyda Thomas Cook. Ni ddylai’r fath ymddygiad gael ei ganiatáu yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

A matter of principle lies at the heart of this Order—the simple but far-reaching principle that everyone should have the right to use the Welsh language. If the Order is realised, no company will have the right, for example, to prevent their staff from using their mother tongue. There will be no more bullying such as that seen at Thomas Cook. Such behaviour should not be allowed in the twenty-first century.

Yr ail egwyddor hynod bwysig yn y cyd-destun cyfreithiol yw bod gan y Cynulliad yr hawl foesol i ddeddfu ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Un o ganlyniadau pasio’r Gorchymyn fydd sicrhau bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn gyfrifoldeb deddfwriaethol i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Yma yng Nghymru y dylid gwneud penderfyniadau ar ddyfodol ieithyddol ein gwlad, nid mewn unrhyw Senedd arall. Mae hyn yn allweddol er mwyn sicrhau bod gan y Cynulliad bwerau sydd yn fater o synnwyr cyffredin ac yn fater cynhenid o gyfleoedd cyfartal. Canmolaf Lywodraeth Cymru’n Un am sylweddoli hynny ac am gymryd y camau angenrheidiol i’w wireddu. Yr wyf yn gobeithio’n fawr y bydd pleidiau eraill yn croesawu’r Gorchymyn, fel yr ydym wedi clywed eisoes, ac, wrth gwrs, bydd yn rhaid i San Steffan dderbyn penderfyniadau’r Cynulliad fel cynulliad democrataidd pobl Cymru a’r corff naturiol i ddelio â materion ieithyddol Cymru.

The second vital principle in the legal context is that the Assembly should have the moral right to legislate on the Welsh language. One consequence of this Order will be to ensure that the Welsh language becomes a legal responsibility of the National Assembly for Wales. Decisions on the linguistic future of our country should be made here in Wales, and not in some other Parliament. This is key if we are to secure common-sense powers for the Assembly on an issue that is fundamentally one of equal rights. I praise the One Wales Government for realising this, and for taking the necessary steps to act upon it. I sincerely hope that the other parties will welcome the Order, as we have already heard, and Westminster will, of course, have to accept the Assembly’s decisions as those of the democratically elected assembly of the people of Wales, and the natural body for dealing with the Welsh language.

Hoffwn ofyn ychydig o gwestiynau i’r Gweinidog. Pa effaith a gaiff y ddeddfwriaeth hon ar Gymru, yn enwedig yn ystod y sefyllfa economaidd bresennol? Yn ogystal, sut yr ydych yn disgwyl i’r ddeddfwriaeth newydd effeithio ar fyd addysg, yn enwedig a ninnau’n trafod mesurau fel coleg ffederal Gymraeg?

I would like to ask the Minister a few questions. What effect will this legislation have on Wales, especially during the current economic situation? In addition, what impact will the legislation have on education, particularly as we discuss measures such as a Welsh federal college?

Pwynt arall yr hoffwn ei godi yw’r sector preifat. Dywedodd yr academydd cyfreithiol, Gwion Lewis, sydd wedi arbenigo mewn hawliau ieithyddol yn Ewrop, yn ei lyfr diweddar, Hawl i’r Gymraeg, ei bod yn hollol hen ffasiwn nad oes gan Gymru fesur sydd yn ymgymryd â’r sector preifat ar hyn. Mae’r sector preifat yn darparu canran enfawr o’r gwasanaethau sy’n rhan o fywydau dyddiol dinasyddion Cymru, ac mae ei eithrio o’r Gorchymyn yn effeithio ar uchelgais y Llywodraeth o gyrraedd y nod o Gymru ddwyieithog. O dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006, a yw’n bosibl cynnwys y sector? Cyflawnwyd hyn mewn Deddfau iaith eraill, megis yng Ngwlad y Basg. Felly, a all y Gweinidog gyfiawnhau pam nad yw’r sector yn ei gyfanrwydd yn dod o dan y Gorchymyn arfaethedig?

Another point that I would like to raise is that of the private sector. The legal academic, Gwion Lewis, who specialises in European linguistic rights, said in his recent book, Hawl i’r Gymraeg, that it is wholly old-fashioned for Wales not to have a way of dealing with the private sector in this regard. The private sector provides a huge percentage of the services that are a part of the daily lives of Welsh citizens, and its exemption from this Order is affecting the Government’s aim of a bilingual Wales. Under the Government of Wales Act 2006, is it possible to include the sector? This has been achieved in other language Acts, such as in the Basque Country. Therefore, can the Minister justify why the sector in its entirety does not come under the proposed Order?

Yn adran 3(2)(i) o’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig, pa gwmnïau mae’r Gweinidog yn credu a fydd yn

In section 3(2)(i) of the proposed Order, which companies does the Minister believe will be

'dewis bod yn ddarostyngedig i gael y dyletswyddau wedi’u gosod arnynt neu sy’n cytuno i hynny’?

'opting or agreeing to be subject to the imposition of the duties’?

Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod nifer o gwmnïau mawr ar hyn o bryd wedi cytuno polisïau iaith gwirfoddol, ond a yw’n gredadwy y bydd cwmnïau rhyngwladol yn dewis dod o dan ddeddfwriaeth y gallant ei hosgoi? Hoffwn hefyd ofyn i chi, fel Gweinidog, weithio’n galed i sicrhau mai Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru fydd yn gwneud penderfyniadau dros yr iaith a’ch bod yn cyfathrebu’n glir i’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig na ddylai lusgo ei draed ar y mater ac y dylai weithio o fewn ysbryd Deddf 2006 wrth ymdrin â’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig ar yr iaith. A gytunwch ei bod yn bwysig bod grwpiau pwyso’n codi’r mater hwn gydag Aelodau Seneddol lleol, er mwyn pwysleisio eu barn ar y mater a dylanwadu ar drafodaethau yn Llundain?

I realise that a number of large companies have already voluntarily agreed to have language policies, but is it realistic that multinational companies will choose to come under legislation that they can avoid? I would like to ask you, as Minister, to work hard to ensure that it is the National Assembly for Wales that makes decisions on the language, and to communicate clearly to the Welsh Affairs Committee that it should not drag its feet on this matter and that it should work within the spirit of the 2006 Act in dealing with the proposed Order on the language. Do you agree that it is important that pressure groups raise this matter with their local Members of Parliament in order to make known their views on the matter, and to influence discussions in London?

Yr wyf yn croesawu’r hyn a ddywedodd Paul Davies o feinciau’r Ceidwadwyr, sef eu bod yn unfryd o blaid y Gorchymyn hwn. Felly gofynnaf iddynt gondemnio’r hyn a ddywedodd David Davies yn ddiweddar am gwmnïau yn symud eu gwaith o Gymru i Loegr yn sgîl y Gorchymyn arfaethedig. Gofynnaf hefyd iddynt gondemnio’r hyn a roddodd yr Aelod Seneddol Ewropeaidd, Roger Helmer, ar ei flog heddiw am yr iaith Gymraeg, sef:

I welcome what was said by Paul Davies, from the Conservative benches, that they were unanimously in favour of the Order. I therefore ask the Conservatives to condemn what David Davies has recently said about companies moving work from Wales to England as a result of the proposed Order. I also ask them to condemn what Roger Helmer MEP has said on his blog today about the Welsh language:

'in the 21st century it is hardly a passport to achievement and success in an increasingly international and globalised world’.

yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, nid yw’n basport i lwyddiant a chyflawniad mewn byd sy’n gynyddol ryngwladol a byd-eang.

Os yw’r Torïaid yn y Cynulliad yn fodlon dweud eu bod o blaid y Gorchymyn arfaethedig, gofynnaf iddynt ymbellhau o eiriau eu cyd-aelodau i sicrhau nad yw eu sbin o alw eu hunain yn Dorïaid Cymreig yn hollol ffals.

If the Tories in the Assembly are willing to come out in favour of the proposed Order, I ask them to distance themselves from the words of their fellow members, so as to make it clear that the spin of calling themselves Welsh Conservatives is not false.

Diolch am ddod â’r datganiad hwn ger ein bron, Weinidog, a diolchaf hefyd i’ch ymgynghorwyr arbennig a’ch tîm yn y Llywodraeth am greu Gorchymyn arfaethedig mor bwysig.

Thank you for making this statement, Minister. I also thank your special advisers and your team in Government for formulating such an important proposed Order.

Alun Ffred Jones: Diolch am eich cefnogaeth gyffredinol i’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig, Bethan. Yr wyf innau hefyd yn siomedig iawn bod Aelod Seneddol Ewropeaidd wedi dweud pethau anffodus iawn ac eithriadol o anneallus. Serch hynny, mater iddo ef yw hynny.

Alun Ffred Jones: Thank you for your general support for the proposed Order. I am also very disappointed that a Member of the European Parliament has made some very unfortunate and unwise comments. However, that is a matter for him.

Cyfeiriasoch hefyd at fater yn ymwneud ag addysg, ond nid yw addysg o fewn cwmpawd y Gorchymyn hwn. Bydd yn rhaid mynd ar drywydd hynny drwy ddulliau eraill ac mewn Mesurau eraill.

You also referred to a matter relating to education, but education does not come within the scope of this proposed Order. We would have to pursue that through other methods and through Measures.

Gofynasoch ynglŷn ag effaith y Gorchymyn o ystyried y sefyllfa economaidd bresennol. Mae’n bwysig sylweddoli ein bod yn paratoi deddfwriaeth ar gyfer cyfnod hir o amser—dyna’r gobaith—ac nid ar gyfer y flwyddyn hon na’r flwyddyn nesaf. Erbyn y daw’r Mesurau i rym, y gobaith yw y bydd gwedd wahanol a mwy gobeithiol ar yr economi. Diddorol oedd clywed y Prif Weinidog yn sôn y bore yma am y darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth, o bosibl, sy’n ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg, sef Deddf Llysoedd Cymru 1942. Cyflwynwyd y Ddeddf honno gan Winston Churchill ynghanol erchylltra’r ail ryfel byd. Mae’n anodd credu’r peth, ond y mae’n dangos, efallai, fod rhai pethau y gallwch eu paratoi hyd yn oed mewn cyfnodau anffodus.

You asked about the impact of the proposed Order given the present economic climate. It is important to realise that we are preparing legislation here that we hope will last a long time; it is not intended only for this year or the next. By the time any Measures come into force, we hope that the economy will be in a different and more optimistic condition. I was interested to hear the First Minister talking this morning about possibly the first piece of legislation relating to the Welsh language, namely the Welsh Courts Act 1942. That Act was introduced by Winston Churchill amid the horrors of the second world war. It is difficult to believe, but it shows that there are some things that can be prepared even during times of great misfortune.

Codwyd y cwestiwn pam nad yw’r sector preifat wedi’i gynnwys yn ei grynswth o fewn ystod y Gorchymyn. Y ffaith syml amdani yw mai dyma’r cytundeb a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth, a dyma’r meysydd y credwn y dylem ac y gallwn weithredu ynddynt o ran deddfwriaeth, a bod hyn yn ddatblygiad o Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993. Mae’n bwysig inni ystyried hwn fel rhan o ddilyniant o ddeddfau a Mesurau sydd wedi’u cyflwyno dros gyfnod o amser, a’i fod yn ehangu ac yn gwella ar Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993, er ein bod, yn y bôn, yn dilyn trywydd sy’n debyg iawn. Mewn sefyllfa wahanol gallech ddadlau y gallech wneud pethau gwahanol. Mae’r sefyllfa ieithyddol yng Nghatalonia ac yng Ngwlad y Basg yn wahanol. Mae’r cyd-destun yn wahanol. Serch hynny, maent yn enghreifftiau diddorol y dylem dalu sylw iddynt. Nid oes unrhyw awgrym bod cyflwyno deddfau iaith eithaf llym a chadarnhaol yng Ngwlad y Basg ac yng Nghatalonia wedi cael unrhyw effaith negyddol ar lwyddiant economaidd yr ardaloedd hynny. Yn wir, yn hollol groes i hynny, dyma’r ardaloedd mwyaf ffyniannus yn Sbaen. Nid oes unrhyw enghraifft na phrawf bod cwmnïau rhyngwladol wedi peidio â mynd i’r ardaloedd dan sylw i ymsefydlu, neu heb aros a ffynnu yno, oherwydd bod yno ofynion ieithyddol. Gall cwmnïau rhyngwladol, o ran eu natur, ymdopi â sefyllfaoedd amlieithog gan mai dyna beth a wnânt. Symudant o Gymru i unrhyw le ym mhellafoedd Ewrop neu’r dwyrain pell heb ystyried o gwbl pa iaith y siaredir yno. Maent wedi arfer ymdopi â sefyllfa o’r fath. Sgwarnog yw sôn am ddeddfwriaeth o’r fath yn cael effaith negyddol ar y sefyllfa economaidd neu o safbwynt creu swyddi.

The question was asked why the private sector in its entirety has not been included within the scope of the proposed Order. The simple fact of the matter is that this is the agreement reached by the Government, and these are the fields in which we believe that we should and could act within using legislation. In addition, this is building on the Welsh Language Act 1993. It is vital that we consider this to be part of the continuum of laws and measures that have been introduced over time, and that it will expand and improve on the Welsh Language Act 1993, although we are, in essence, taking a similar route. In a different situation, you could argue that you could do things differently. The linguistic position of Catalonia and of the Basque Country is different. They have a different context. However, they are interesting examples that we should pay attention to. There is no suggestion that introducing quite strict and affirmative language laws in the Basque Country and Catalonia has had any negative impact on the economic success of those areas. Indeed, entirely to the contrary, those are the most prosperous parts of Spain. There is no example or any proof of international companies having decided not to go to those areas in question to set up businesses, or not to stay and prosper there, simply because of the linguistic requirements in place. International companies, by their very nature, can cope with multilingual situations; that is what they do. They would move from Wales to anywhere in the outer reaches of Europe or the far east without a thought as to which language is spoken there. They are used to dealing with such situations. It is a red herring to talk about legislation of this kind having a negative impact on the economic situation or on the creation of jobs.

Yng nghyd-destun Cymru, mae’r Gorchymyn hwn yn cynnig cam mawr ymlaen i’r cyhoedd o ran derbyn gwasanaethau sydd, ar y cyfan, yn wasanaethau o’r natur gyhoeddus yr ydym wedi bod yn eu trafod, ac o ran derbyn gwasanaethau tebyg a ddarperir gan rai cwmnïau preifat. Credaf y bydd croeso i hynny a chredaf ein bod wedi bod yn synhwyrol, yn gall ac yn uchelgeisiol yn yr hyn yr ydym wedi ceisio ei wneud.

In the Welsh context, this proposed Order represents a great stride forward for the public in receiving services that have, on the whole, been those services of a public nature that we have been discussing, and to receive similar services delivered by some private companies. I believe that that will be welcomed and I believe that we have been sensible, wise and yet ambitious in what we have sought to achieve.

David Melding: I am pleased that, as a proud Anglo-Welshman, it falls upon me to make the first contribution in English. My attempts to learn the language of heaven are bearing some fruit, but I am afraid that spontaneous contributions are yet beyond me because I have to be heavily scripted. However, I give the Minister two and three-quarter cheers for this legislative competence Order. I reserve a quarter because he is a Minister. [Laughter.]

David Melding: Yr wyf wrth fy modd, fel Eingl-Gymro balch, mai fi sy’n cael gwneud y cyfraniad cyntaf yn Saesneg. Mae fy ymdrechion i ddysgu iaith y nefoedd yn dwyn ffrwyth i raddau, ond mae arnaf ofn bod cyfrannu o’r fron y tu hwnt i mi ar hyn o bryd gan fod yn rhaid imi ddilyn sgript yn fanwl. Fodd bynnag, rhof ddwy fonllef a thri chwarter i’r Gweinidog am y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn. Yr wyf yn atal chwarter oherwydd ei fod yn Weinidog. [Chwerthin.]

4.20 p.m.

 

As a sceptical Tory, I would always be suspicious of Ministers, of whatever political stripe, including my own—perhaps more so of my own because I would know some of the tricks they get up to. When I introduced my LCO, there was a sense among some of us that the Government was stalling and in trouble and lacked the will to bring about this transfer of powers to the Assembly. I think that you have completely dispelled that, and I am really delighted that there seems to be a great will to do this on the part of all parties, which demonstrates a level of consensus that I think is very precious and that stands in sharp contrast to the situation even 30 years ago, when the last big debate on devolution occurred in the 1970s. There was not that feeling of unity across the Welsh nation at that time.

Fel Tori llawn amheuon, byddwn bob amser yn ddrwgdybus o Weinidogion, beth bynnag fo’u gogwydd gwleidyddol, gan gynnwys fy eiddo fi fy hun—efallai’n fwy felly fy eiddo fi fy hun, oherwydd byddwn yn gwybod am rai o’r castiau y byddent yn eu chwarae. Pan gyflwynais fy Ngorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol, yr oedd ymdeimlad ymhlith rhai ohonom fod y Llywodraeth yn oedi a’i bod mewn trybini ac nad oedd ganddi’r ewyllys i sicrhau bod y pwerau hyn yn cael eu trosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad. Credaf eich bod wedi cael gwared ar yr ymdeimlad hwnnw’n llwyr, ac yr wyf wrth fy modd ei bod yn ymddangos bod ewyllys gref i wneud hyn ar ran yr holl bleidiau, sy’n dangos lefel o gonsensws sydd, yn fy marn i, yn hynod o werthfawr ac sydd yn cyferbynnu’n llwyr â’r sefyllfa 30 mlynedd yn ôl, hyd yn oed, pan gafwyd y drafodaeth fawr ddiwethaf ar ddatganoli yn yr 1970au. Ni chafwyd y teimlad hwnnw o undod ledled cenedl y Cymry bryd hynny.

You have brought this legislative competence Order forward very tactfully and with proper consideration for those who do not speak Welsh and for other political parties. You made a very generous reference to my LCO and to the legislation of the last Conservative Government. I think that that will put you in a very good position as you take this LCO through the legislative process. I have just one question, because I want a little more information on what the office of the Welsh language commissioner will look like. I know that that is for a Measure, but may I press upon you that that office should sit, in terms of its appointment and its accountability as regards reporting back, in the National Assembly and not be an executive appointment by the Government. I think that it would be appropriate for it to operate at arm’s length as that would establish, following best practice international models, a commissioner of world-class standard and ambition. The next stage, as you have rightly said, is to go beyond legislation and increase the number of Welsh speakers in the generations to come.

Yr ydych wedi cyflwyno’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn yn hynod o dringar a chydag ystyriaeth deg i’r rhai nad ydynt yn siarad Cymraeg ac i bleidiau gwleidyddol eraill. Gwnaethoch gyfeiriad hael iawn at fy Ngorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol i ac at ddeddfwriaeth y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf. Credaf y bydd hynny’n eich rhoi mewn sefyllfa dda iawn wrth ichi dywys y GCD hwn drwy’r broses ddeddfwriaethol. Mae gennyf un cwestiwn bach, oherwydd y mae arnaf eisiau rhywfaint yn rhagor o wybodaeth ynghylch sut beth fydd swydd comisiynydd yr iaith Gymraeg. Gwn mai mater i’w egluro mewn Mesur yw hynny, ond hoffwn eich cymell y dylai’r swydd honno fod wedi’i lleoli, o ran ei phenodiad a’i hatebolrwydd o ran adrodd yn ôl, yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac na ddylai fod yn benodiad gweithredol gan y Llywodraeth. Credaf y byddai’n addas iddi weithredu o hyd braich gan y byddai hynny’n sefydlu comisiynydd o safon ac uchelgais byd-eang, gan ddilyn modelau rhyngwladol yr arferion gorau. Y cam nesaf, fel yr ydych wedi dweud yn berffaith gywir, yw mynd y tu hwnt i ddeddfwriaeth a chynyddu nifer y siaradwyr Cymraeg yn y cenedlaethau sydd i ddod.

Alun Ffred Jones: Thank you, David, for those very kind words. Perhaps I should make the statement that the Government is not in trouble. You can take that at face value because I am a Minister. [Laughter.] I agree with everything you have said. You asked about the role of the office of the commissioner, and the easy answer is that that is to be set out in a Measure. However, you are right to say that we should look at models throughout the world. I have been speaking to the commissioner in Ireland, and he certainly has very strong powers, but, by and large, he acts as an intermediary in disputes. Although he has certain draconian powers to deal with difficult customers, including the Government’s own departments, in every instance so far he has played the part of an honest broker, therefore he suggested that, in retrospect, he would have liked the legislation to have contained formal procedures within the informal arrangement to deal with certain situations, so that it was not merely up to him to make a few phone calls, send a letter and arrange a meeting. He would have liked there to be a formal procedure so that people could see that action had been taken and a resolution found without touching the courts or anything like that.

Alun Ffred Jones: Diolch ichi, David, am y geiriau hynod o garedig hynny. Efallai y dylwn wneud y datganiad nad yw’r Llywodraeth mewn trybini. Gallwch dderbyn hynny fel ffaith oherwydd fy mod i’n Weinidog. [Chwerthin.] Yr wyf yn cytuno â phopeth yr ydych wedi’i ddweud. Holasoch am rôl swydd y comisiynydd, a’r ateb rhwydd yw y bydd hynny’n cael ei amlinellu mewn Mesur. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych yn berffaith iawn wrth ddweud y dylem edrych ar fodelau ledled y byd. Yr wyf wedi bod yn siarad â’r comisiynydd yn Iwerddon, ac y mae ganddo ef yn sicr bwerau cryf iawn, ond, at ei gilydd, mae’n gweithredu fel canolwr mewn anghydfod. Er bod ganddo rai pwerau llym i ymdrin â chwsmeriaid anodd, gan gynnwys adrannau’r Llywodraeth ei hun, ar bob achlysur hyd yn hyn mae wedi chwarae rhan y cyfryngwr, felly awgrymodd, wrth edrych yn ôl, y byddai wedi hoffi pe bai’r ddeddfwriaeth wedi cynnwys gweithdrefnau ffurfiol o fewn y trefniant anffurfiol i ymdrin â rhai sefyllfaoedd, er mwyn sicrhau nad yr unig gam posibl oedd iddo ef wneud ambell alwad ffôn, anfon llythyr a threfnu cyfarfod. Byddai wedi hoffi petai gweithdrefn ffurfiol fel y gallai pobl weld bod camau wedi’u cymryd a bod ateb wedi’i ganfod heb fynd yn agos at y llysoedd na dim byd felly.

Therefore, that may be something for Assembly Members to look at in future, in order to see the deficiencies and advantages of the arrangement in Ireland, which seems to be working very well. He has had to deal with a large number of complaints—far more than I had envisaged, when you consider the situation in Ireland, which is very different again to the situation in Wales in terms of people using and speaking the language.

Felly, efallai fod hynny’n rhywbeth i Aelodau’r Cynulliad edrych arno yn y dyfodol, er mwyn gweld diffygion a manteision y trefniant yn Iwerddon, sy’n ymddangos fel pe bai’n gweithio’n dda iawn. Mae wedi gorfod ymdrin â nifer fawr o gwynion—llawer mwy nag yr oeddwn wedi’u rhagweld, pan ystyriwch y sefyllfa yn Iwerddon, sy’n wahanol iawn unwaith eto i’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru o ran pobl yn defnyddio ac yn siarad yr iaith.

However, I have no doubt that there are other models that I know nothing about so far, although I am sure I will become very familiar with those in future. I hope to visit the Basque country this year to see what they have been doing, because their position is far closer to ours in the way that they have increased the number of speakers, which they have done mainly through the education system. However, they are facing the same difficulties that any minority language faces in this global environment: you can teach people to speak a language, but it is far more difficult to encourage the language to be used in informal settings, for all sorts of social and historical reasons. I accept your comments in the spirit in which they were made, and thank you for your support.

Fodd bynnag, nid oes gennyf ddim amheuaeth nad oes modelau eraill nad wyf yn gwybod dim amdanynt hyd yn hyn, er fy mod yn siŵr y dof yn gyfarwydd iawn â’r rheini yn y dyfodol. Yr wyf yn gobeithio ymweld â Gwlad y Basg eleni i weld beth y maent hwy wedi bod yn ei wneud, oherwydd y mae eu sefyllfa hwy yn llawer agosach i’n hun ni o ran y modd y maent wedi cynyddu nifer y siaradwyr, a hynny’n bennaf drwy gyfrwng y system addysg. Fodd bynnag, maent yn wynebu’r un anawsterau y mae unrhyw iaith leiafrifol yn eu hwynebu yn yr amgylchedd byd-eang hwn: gallwch ddysgu pobl i siarad iaith, ond mae’n llawer anos annog defnyddio’r iaith mewn sefyllfaoedd anffurfiol, am bob math o resymau cymdeithasol a hanesyddol. Yr wyf yn derbyn eich sylwadau yn yr ysbryd y cawsant eu gwneud, a hoffwn ddiolch ichi am eich cefnogaeth.

Lesley Griffiths: Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Do you share my concern at the London-based media’s miscoverage of this issue over the past 24 hours, particularly with regard to the question as to why the Assembly Government is seeking these powers? Having read and heard some of the shock tactics used by some individuals and groups—people who should know better—do you agree that the scrutiny process that is due to take place will have served a purpose if it debunks the quite ridiculous myths surrounding this LCO? Will you again take this opportunity to confirm that this LCO will not place a burden on the local chip shop, local taxi business, or local plumber?

Lesley Griffiths: Diolch, Weinidog, am eich datganiad. A ydych yn pryderu fel yr wyf fi ynghylch sut y mae cyfryngau Llundain wedi gwneud cam â’r mater hwn yn ystod y 24 awr diwethaf, yn enwedig wrth drafod pam mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ceisio’r pwerau hyn? Wedi darllen a chlywed rhai o’r tactegau sy’n peri braw y mae rhai unigolion a grwpiau yn eu defnyddio—pobl a ddylai wybod yn well—a ydych yn cytuno y bydd y broses graffu sydd i’w chynnal yn awr yn ateb diben os bydd yn chwalu’r mythau cwbl chwerthinllyd ynghylch y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn? A fanteisiwch ar y cyfle hwn unwaith eto i gadarnhau na fydd y Gorchymyn hwn yn rhoi baich ar y siop sglodion leol, y busnes tacsi lleol na’r plymwr lleol?

Alun Ffred Jones: Certainly, from what I have seen, there is serious misunderstanding on the part of the London media with regard to what has been proposed, and that is regrettable. By and large, the London-based media, particularly print media, takes no notice at all of what happens in the Assembly. Indeed, it does not take much notice of what happens in Wales, unless a bull is being threatened in the wilds of Carmarthenshire, or some such story. The serious lack of understanding of the Welsh context is deeply regrettable as is the lack of a stronger print media in Wales to try to counteract that effect. The story in the Daily Mail was absolute tosh, to say the least. However, it is not for me to comment on the editorial policy of the Daily Mail. It has its virtues no doubt. [Laughter.]

Alun Ffred Jones: Yn sicr, yn ôl yr hyn yr wyf fi wedi’i weld, mae camddealltwriaeth  ddifrifol ar ran cyfryngau Llundain ynghylch yr hyn sydd wedi’i gynnig, ac mae hynny’n destun gofid. At ei gilydd, nid yw cyfryngau Llundain, yn enwedig y cyfryngau print, yn rhoi dim sylw o gwbl i’r hyn sy’n digwydd yn y Cynulliad. Yn wir, nid ydynt yn rhoi llawer o sylw i’r hyn sy’n digwydd yng Nghymru, oni bai fod tarw’n cael ei fygwth ym mhellafoedd sir Gaerfyrddin, neu stori debyg. Mae’r diffyg dealltwriaeth difrifol o’r cyd-destun Cymreig yn destun gofid mawr, a’r un modd diffyg cyfryngau print cryfach yng Nghymru i geisio gwrthbwyso’r effaith honno. Yr oedd y stori yn y Daily Mail yn sothach llwyr, a dweud y lleiaf. Fodd bynnag, nid fy lle i yw gwneud sylwadau ar bolisi golygyddol y Daily Mail. Mae ganddo  ei rinweddau, heb os. [Chwerthin.]

Jenny Randerson: Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I fear that I am going to be far more disappointed than some other speakers have been. While remaining totally supportive of what is in the Order, I am disappointed at what has not been included. First, I would like to comment on the 18 months that it has taken to get to this point. You have my considerable sympathy, Minister, but do you agree that it is not good news for the Welsh language or this institution and its powers that it has taken this long to get here? I acknowledge the legal complexity of the issues concerned, which is something that I had more than a passing acquaintance with when I was a Minister. However, the noises off from Westminster—not just the Daily Mail—show that the clouds are already gathering in some way over the smooth passage of this through the House of Commons and through Parliament in general. Do you agree that there is still a considerable lack of understanding, with regard to both devolution and the Welsh language? Despite the Secretary of State’s public comments, have you received what you regard as adequate assurances that the Government in Westminster will ensure a smooth passage for this LCO?

Jenny Randerson: Diolch, Weinidog, am eich datganiad. Mae arnaf ofn fy mod am fod yn fwy siomedig o lawer nag y mae rhai siaradwyr eraill wedi bod. Er fy mod yn parhau’n gwbl gefnogol i’r hyn sydd yn y Gorchymyn, yr wyf yn siomedig ynghylch yr hyn nad yw wedi’i gynnwys. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn wneud sylwadau ynghylch y 18 mis y mae wedi’u cymryd i gyrraedd y pwynt hwn. Yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo’n fawr â chi, Weinidog, ond a ydych yn cytuno nad yw’n newyddion da i’r iaith Gymraeg nac i’r sefydliad hwn a’i bwerau ei bod wedi cymryd cyhyd inni gyrraedd y fan hon? Yr wyf yn cydnabod cymhlethdod cyfreithiol y materion dan sylw, sy’n rhywbeth yr oeddwn yn fwy na chyfarwydd ag ef pan oeddwn yn Weinidog. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sŵn yn y cefndir yn San Steffan—nid dim ond gan y Daily Mail—yn dangos bod y cymylau’n crynhoi eisoes rywfodd uwchben taith rwydd y Gorchymyn hwn drwy Dŷ’r Cyffredin a thrwy’r Senedd yn gyffredinol. A ydych yn cytuno bod diffyg dealltwriaeth sylweddol o hyd, yng nghyswllt datganoli a’r iaith Gymraeg? Er gwaethaf sylwadau cyhoeddus yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, a ydych wedi cael yr hyn sydd, yn eich barn chi, yn sicrwydd digonol y bydd y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yn sicrhau taith rwydd i’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn?

I have stated many times here and elsewhere that I believe that an LCO and Measure on the Welsh language should have been the very first things that we dealt with. It is the very last thing that Westminster is entitled to deal with or has the competence to deal with, and it probably does not have the interest in dealing with it either. After all, Minister, if we want to ruin our economy by imposing a Welsh language obligation on every chip shop, then that should be our right. I do not believe that it would ruin any chip shops, but I think that it is our right to do that. Those in London show a great lack of understanding of the issues here and the powers that we should have over our own economy, culture and language.

Yr wyf wedi datgan lawer gwaith yma ac mewn mannau eraill fy mod yn credu mai’r pethau cyntaf un y dylem fod wedi ymdrin â hwy oedd Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol a Mesur ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Dyna’r peth olaf un y mae gan San Steffan hawl i ymdrin ag ef ac y mae ganddi’r gallu i ymdrin ag ef. Mae’n fwy na thebyg nad oes ganddi, ychwaith, ddiddordeb mewn ymdrin ag ef. Wedi’r cyfan, Weinidog, os oes arnom eisiau dinistrio ein heconomi drwy orfodi rhwymedigaeth ynghylch yr iaith Gymraeg ar bob siop sglodion, yna dylai fod gennym yr hawl i wneud hynny. Nid wyf yn credu y byddai’n dinistrio unrhyw siopau sglodion, ond credaf mai ein hawl ni yw gwneud hynny. Mae’r rhai yn Llundain yn dangos diffyg dealltwriaeth dybryd o’r materion yn y fan hon a’r pwerau a ddylai fod gennym dros ein heconomi, ein diwylliant a’n hiaith ein hunain.

4.30 p.m.

 

My second question refers specifically to powers over linguistic rights in relation to services. 'Iaith Pawb’ in 2003 referred to extending Welsh language schemes to housing associations and social landlords, and to extending those obligations to utilities under the existing legislation.

Mae fy ail gwestiwn yn cyfeirio’n benodol at bwerau dros hawliau ieithyddol mewn cysylltiad â gwasanaethau. Yr oedd 'Iaith Pawb’ yn 2003 yn cyfeirio at ymestyn cynlluniau iaith Gymraeg i gymdeithasau tai a landlordiaid cymdeithasol, ac at ymestyn y rhwymedigaethau hynny i gyfleustodau dan y ddeddfwriaeth bresennol.

Can you explain how the rights that you are proposing would flow from this proposed legislative competence Order would in practice, for the man and woman in the street, mean more than what could be imposed on utilities and housing associations under the old Welsh-language scheme system? Those schemes are, after all, tailored to local requirements. In addition, when the 1993 Act was introduced, many organisations that are now in the private sector were in the public sector. Therefore, it was envisaged that the 1993 Act would apply to them and that they would be obliged to provide services through the medium of Welsh. I acknowledge and applaud the fact that you are seeking to future-proof this legislation, so that if there are any changes to the ownership of industries and so on, they are subject to the legislation. However, I would like to know, Minister, how exactly you envisage that this will change things.

A allwch esbonio sut y byddai’r hawliau yr ydych chi’n cynnig y byddent yn deillio o’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig hwn, mewn gwirionedd, yn golygu mwy i’r dyn a’r fenyw yn y stryd, na’r hyn y gellid ei orfodi ar gyfleustodau a chymdeithasau tai dan yr hen system cynlluniau iaith Gymraeg? Mae’r cynlluniau hynny, wedi’r cyfan, wedi’u teilwrio ar gyfer gofynion lleol. Yn ychwanegol at hyn, pan gyflwynwyd Deddf 1993, yr oedd llawer o’r sefydliadau sydd yn y sector preifat heddiw yn y sector cyhoeddus. Felly, rhagwelid y byddai Deddf 1993 yn berthnasol iddynt hwy ac y byddai’n ddyletswydd arnynt ddarparu gwasanaethau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Yr wyf yn cydnabod ac yn cymeradwyo’r ffaith eich bod yn ceisio sicrhau y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gallu ymdopi â newidiadau yn y dyfodol, ac y bydd diwydiannau ac yn y blaen yn dal yn ddarostyngedig i’r ddeddfwriaeth hyd yn oed os bydd newid yn eu perchenogaeth. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn wybod, Weinidog, sut yn union yr ydych yn rhagweld y bydd hyn yn newid pethau.

Finally, I note your comments on the exclusion of education from the proposed legislative competence Order. I regret that education is not included. I fear that, as you say, not one Welsh speaker will be created by the legislation, which would have been the case had education been included. Minister, what are the precise reasons as to why education was not included? Is it a simple legal requirement or is it a policy decision by the UK Government?

Yn olaf, sylwaf ar eich sylwadau ynglŷn ag eithrio addysg o’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig. Mae’n ofid gennyf nad yw addysg yn cael ei chynnwys. Mae arnaf ofn, fel yr ydych yn dweud, na fydd y ddeddfwriaeth yn creu yr un siaradwr Cymraeg; byddai hynny wedi digwydd petai addysg wedi’i chynnwys. Weinidog, beth yw’r union resymau dros beidio â chynnwys addysg? Ai gofyniad cyfreithiol syml ydyw ynteu penderfyniad polisi gan Lywodraeth y DU?

Alun Ffred Jones: I am sorry that you are disappointed by the nature of the proposed Order, but I believe that it is fit for purpose and a great step forward. There is no point in commenting on the length of time that it has taken to get here. It is a difficult process and, in this field, we had to be sensitive for all sorts of reasons, and I am satisfied that the work that has been done has been carried out professionally and that it will stand up to vigorous tests in the ensuing months.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich bod yn siomedig â natur y Gorchymyn arfaethedig, ond credaf ei fod yn ateb y gofyn a’i fod yn gam mawr ymlaen. Nid oes diben inni wneud sylwadau ynglŷn â’r amser y mae wedi’i gymryd i gyrraedd i’r fan hon. Mae’n broses anodd ac, yn y maes hwn, yr oedd yn rhaid inni fod yn sensitif am bob math o resymau, ac yr wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi bod y gwaith a wnaethpwyd wedi cael ei wneud yn broffesiynol ac y bydd yn gwrthsefyll profion caled yn y misoedd sydd i ddod.

You talked about noises off from Westminster and clouds gathering, but I prefer to refer to the spirit that has been on display this afternoon. It has been positive and there has been a great deal of support for the principle of this. If we express that view unanimously, I think that we will reach the end of the journey sooner rather than later. As to the smooth passage of the proposed legislative competence Order, I do not know what will happen here, let alone in Westminster, but I presume that we can count on the whole-hearted support of the Liberal Democrat Member on the select committee and I look forward to hearing his comments.

Siaradasoch am sŵn yn y cefndir yn San Steffan a chymylau’n crynhoi, ond mae’n well gennyf gyfeirio at y naws a welwyd y prynhawn yma. Mae wedi bod yn gadarnhaol a chafwyd llawer o gefnogaeth i’r egwyddor y tu ôl i hyn. Os mynegwn y farn honno’n unfrydol, credaf y byddwn yn cyrraedd pen y daith yn gynt. O ran hynt ddirwystr y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig drwy’r Senedd, ni wn beth fydd yn digwydd yma, heb sôn am San Steffan, ond cymeraf y gallwn ddibynnu ar gefnogaeth frwd yr Aelod o’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol sydd ar y pwyllgor dethol ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed ei sylwadau.

You said that the competence should be here and I agree with you entirely. This is a far better place to deal with Welsh language legislation because we understand the context and with the different views and backgrounds—linguistic and otherwise—of Assembly Members, we can have a debate that will reflect the different attitudes of Members and the views that are on display in society as a whole.

Dywedasoch mai yma y dylai’r cymhwysedd fod ac yr wyf yn cytuno’n llwyr â chi. Mae hwn yn lle llawer gwell i ymdrin â deddfwriaeth sy’n ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg gan ein bod yn deall y cyd-destun, a chyda safbwyntiau a chefndiroedd gwahanol Aelodau’r Cynulliad—yn ieithyddol ac fel arall—gallwn gael trafodaeth a fydd yn adlewyrchu gwahanol agweddau’r Aelodau a’r safbwyntiau a fynegir yn y gymdeithas yn gyffredinol.

There is no intention that this proposed Order should catch any chip shop. I am sorry that I did not get around to replying to Lesley Griffiths, but she is quite right—we do not intend to catch businesses of that nature within the scope of the proposed LCO. By and large, we are dealing with companies that provide a service of a public nature, or which is deemed to be essential to the life of the community. That has largely been defined by the 1993 Act, but we need to widen the scope in certain areas to ensure that we include all relevant parties within the legislation.

Nid yw’n fwriad defnyddio’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn i ddal unrhyw siop sglodion. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf na chefais gyfle i ymateb i Lesley Griffiths, ond mae yn llygad ei lle—nid ydym yn bwriadu dal busnesau o’r fath o fewn cwmpas y Gorchym cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig. Yn gyffredinol, yr ydym yn ymdrin â chwmnïau sy’n darparu gwasanaeth o natur gyhoeddus, neu y bernir ei fod yn hanfodol i fywyd y gymuned. Diffiniwyd hynny i raddau helaeth gan Ddeddf 1993, ond mae angen inni ehangu’r cwmpas mewn rhai meysydd er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cynnwys yr holl bartïon perthnasol yn y ddeddfwriaeth.

You referred to education, but I would have thought that, for the most part, those powers already reside with the Assembly. We do not need any more powers to carry out anything that we need to do in that area; it is already a matter for us here. I do not know how education would have been included in the proposed LCO; it would certainly have slowed down the process, and we would still be waiting for the legislation, which is not what we are about.

Cyfeiriasoch at addysg, ond byddwn wedi tybio y byddai’r rhan fwyaf o’r pwerau hynny gan y Cynulliad yn barod. Nid oes arnom angen mwy o bwerau i wneud unrhyw beth y mae angen inni ei wneud yn y maes hwnnw; mae eisoes yn fater i ni yma. Ni wn sut y byddai addysg wedi’i gynnwys yn y Gorchymyn arfaethedig; byddai’n sicr wedi arafu’r broses, a byddem yn dal i aros am y ddeddfwriaeth, ac nid ydym yma i wneud hynny.

You also referred to future-proofing the legislation, and that has been our intention in the way that we have approached defining the categories of organisations that will be caught within the scope of the proposed LCO. You asked how this would differ from the 1993 Act; that would depend upon the Measures to follow, and any duties that we might impose, and the way that we deal with different organisations. That is a discussion to be had in the future. It is also right to say that, although we can impose more duties, the important point is that we can approach Welsh-language issues in a completely different way. At the moment, we have Welsh language schemes and that is how we deal with different organisations, and impose duties or expectations upon them. However, that may not be the best way of doing things; it may be too cumbersome and bureaucratic, and so we may need to look at other, more imaginative ways of achieving the same end. What we are trying to do is to provide a service and to ensure that those who want and expect to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh can have that easily and readily. I am not saying that we will change the Welsh language schemes, but we should be creative in thinking about this. However well they may have served their purpose in their time, we should look afresh at matters to ensure that we achieve the ends that we have set ourselves.

Cyfeiriasoch hefyd at sicrhau y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth yn gallu ymdopi â newidiadau yn y dyfodol, a dyna oedd ein bwriad wrth inni fynd ati i ddiffinio’r categorïau o sefydliadau a fydd yn cael eu dal yng nghwmpas y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig. Gofynasoch sut y byddai hyn yn wahanol i Ddeddf 1993; byddai hynny’n dibynnu ar y Mesurau a fyddai’n dilyn, ac unrhyw ddyletswyddau y byddem yn eu gorfodi, a’r ffordd y byddwn yn ymdrin â gwahanol sefydliadau. Trafodaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol yw honno. Mae’n briodol dweud hefyd, er y gallwn orfodi mwy o ddyletswyddau, mai’r pwynt pwysig yw y gallwn ymdrin â materion sy’n ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg mewn ffordd hollol wahanol. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym gynlluniau iaith Gymraeg, a dyna sut yr ydym yn ymdrin â gwahanol sefydliadau, ac yn eu gorfodi i gyflawni dyletswyddau neu ddisgwyliadau. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bosibl nad dyna’r ffordd orau o wneud pethau; mae’n bosibl ei bod yn rhy drafferthus a biwrocrataidd, ac efallai felly y bydd angen inni edrych ar ffyrdd eraill o gyrraedd yr un nod, a dangos mwy o ddychymyg. Yr hyn yr ydym yn ceisio’i wneud yw darparu gwasanaeth a sicrhau bod y rhai sy’n dymuno ac yn disgwyl cael gwasanaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn gallu cael hynny’n rhwydd ac yn ddidrafferth. Nid wyf yn dweud y byddwn yn newid y cynlluniau iaith Gymraeg, ond dylem fod yn greadigol wrth feddwl am hyn. Ni waeth pa mor dda y maent wedi cyflawni eu pwrpas yn eu cyfnod, dylem edrych o’r newydd ar bethau er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cyflawni’r amcanion yr ydym wedi’u pennu i ni’n hunain.

Helen Mary Jones: I also thank the Minister for his statement, and join others in the Chamber in welcoming the proposed legislative competence Order. Some of us would have liked it to go further, but given the constraints of the current system we should congratulate the Minister on a comprehensive piece of legislation.

Helen Mary Jones: Hoffwn innau ddiolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad, ac ategu’r Aelodau eraill yn y Siambr sydd wedi croesawu’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig. Byddai rhai ohonom wedi hoffi ei weld yn mynd ymhellach, ond o ystyried cyfyngiadau’r system bresennol dylem longyfarch y Gweinidog ar ddarn cynhwysfawr o ddeddfwriaeth.

In welcoming the support across the Chamber for this proposed Order, would the Minister agree that we all have a responsibility to help to tackle some of the scaremongering that Lesley Griffiths, Janet Ryder and others mentioned? It is deeply unhelpful, and may cause unnecessary concern. Would you join me in inviting all Members to make the point clearly in our constituencies that this will not have a negative effect on small businesses? At the same time, we should encourage small businesses that want to work in both languages to do so. As Jenny Randerson said, I believe that many of them, in many different parts of Wales, will find that that is good for their business.

Wrth groesawu’r gefnogaeth ar draws y Siambr i’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn, a fyddai’r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod gan bob un ohonom gyfrifoldeb i helpu i fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r achosion o godi bwganod y cyfeiriwyd atynt gan Lesley Griffiths, Janet Ryder ac eraill? Nid ydynt o ddim cymorth, a gallent achosi pryder diangen. A fyddech yn ymuno â mi i wahodd pob Aelod i ddatgan yn glir yn ein hetholaethau na fydd hyn yn cael effaith negyddol ar fusnesau bach? Yr un pryd, dylem annog busnesau bach sy’n dymuno gweithio yn y ddwy iaith i wneud hynny. Fel y dywedodd Jenny Randerson, credaf y bydd llawer ohonynt, mewn amryw o wahanol rannau o Gymru, yn canfod bod hynny o fudd i’w busnes.

Would the Minister also agree that the public response to the proposed legislative competence Order has been positive? I cannot remember any proposed Government legislation that has received the same amount of support via my constituency e-mail inbox and by telephone. Would the Minister particularly agree that it is positive that so many of those messages of support have come from non-Welsh-speaking members of the public, who feel, as he said in his statement, that the language belongs to all of us whether we speak it fluently, are moderately good learners such as myself, or do not speak it at all?

A fyddai’r Gweinidog hefyd yn cytuno bod ymateb y cyhoedd i’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig wedi bod yn gadarnhaol? Ni allaf gofio unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig gan y Llywodraeth sydd wedi cael cymaint o gefnogaeth drwy’r blwch derbyn e-bost a thros y ffôn yn fy etholaeth. A fyddai’r Gweinidog yn cytuno, yn anad dim, ei bod yn gadarnhaol bod cynifer o’r negeseuon hynny o gefnogaeth wedi’u hanfon gan aelodau o’r cyhoedd nad ydynt yn siarad Cymraeg, ac sy’n teimlo, fel y dywedodd yn ei ddatganiad, fod yr iaith yn perthyn i bob un ohonom pa un ai a ydym yn ei siarad yn rhugl, yn ddysgwyr cymharol dda fel fi, neu heb fod yn ei siarad o gwbl?

4.40 p.m.

 

Does the Minister agree that one of the important effects of the proposal to confer powers to give official status to the Welsh language should be to raise the confidence of Welsh speakers in dealing with authorities through the medium of Welsh? I have found that people will speak Welsh to me socially in a constituency surgery, but when they want to talk about official business such as housing or benefits, they will turn to English because they see that as the official language. Does the Minister agree that giving Welsh official status through a Measure may encourage more citizens who can speak Welsh socially to use the language in a public context? Does he agree that that would be an important step forward for the language?

A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno mai un canlyniad pwysig y dylai’r cynnig i roi pwerau i roi statws swyddogol i’r iaith Gymraeg ei gael yw rhoi mwy o hyder i siaradwyr Cymraeg ymdrin ag awdurdodau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? Yr wyf wedi canfod y bydd pobl yn siarad yn Gymraeg â mi yn gymdeithasol mewn cymhorthfa yn fy etholaeth, ond pan fyddant yn dymuno siarad am faterion swyddogol fel tai neu fudd-daliadau, byddant yn troi i’r Saesneg gan eu bod yn ystyried mai Saesneg yw’r iaith swyddogol. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno y gall rhoi statws swyddogol i’r Gymraeg drwy Fesur annog mwy o ddinasyddion a all siarad Cymraeg yn gymdeithasol i ddefnyddio’r iaith mewn cyd-destun cyhoeddus? A yw’n cytuno y byddai hynny’n gam pwysig ymlaen i’r iaith?

Alun Ffred Jones: I agree that the scaremongering that we have heard over the past day is deeply unhelpful, although it has been drowned out by more positive comments, by and large. I cannot envisage that what is proposed within the scope of this legislative competence Order will have a negative effect on any business, large or small, whether they are caught or not caught within the legislation. We should certainly carry on with the work that we are doing to promote the use of the language within the business community at all levels; that work is ongoing and it is to be welcomed.

Alun Ffred Jones: Cytunaf nad yw’r codi bwganod a ddigwyddodd ddoe o ddim cymorth, er bod y sylwadau mwy cadarnhaol wedi cael y gorau ar hynny i raddau helaeth. Ni allaf ragweld y bydd yr hyn a gynigir yng nghwmpas y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol hwn yn cael effaith negyddol ar ddim un busnes, bach na mawr, pa un ai a yw’n cael ei ddal o fewn y ddeddfwriaeth ai peidio. Dylem yn sicr barhau â’r gwaith yr ydym yn ei wneud er mwyn hybu defnyddio’r iaith yn y gymuned fusnes ar bob lefel; mae’r gwaith hwnnw’n mynd rhagddo ac mae i’w groesawu.

In terms of the implications of the proposed LCO, I would invite the spokespersons of the opposition parties and other Members to engage with us in going through the legislation in detail. That would ensure a better understanding of it. I do not think that you can grasp its full implications in one reading. I have been grappling with it for the past six months, and it has only gradually dawned on me how far-reaching it is and how it works. Therefore, to those of you who are interested, I would invite you to engage with me and my officials to gain a better understanding of the mechanics of the proposed LCO and how it will work when it is put into effect.

 

O ran goblygiadau’r Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig, byddwn yn gwahodd llefarwyr y gwrthbleidiau ac Aelodau eraill i drafod pethau gyda ni wrth inni fynd drwy’r ddeddfwriaeth yn fanwl. Byddai hynny’n sicrhau gwell dealltwriaeth ohoni. Nid wyf yn credu y gallwch ddeall ei holl oblygiadau ar ôl un darlleniad. Yr wyf wedi bod yn ceisio mynd i’r afael â hi ers chwe mis, a dim ond yn raddol yr wyf wedi sylweddoli mor bellgyrhaeddol ydyw a sut y mae’n gweithio. Felly, byddwn yn gwahodd y rhai ohonoch sydd â diddordeb i ymuno â mi a’m swyddogion er mwyn cael gwell dealltwriaeth o fecanwaith y Gorchymyn arfaethedig a sut y bydd yn gweithio pan ddaw i rym.

 

You are right, Helen, that public response has been positive in the main, and I am grateful for that. All opinion polls on the use of Welsh show that well over 50 per cent of people think that the language should be available to the public when using services. We also know that there is a great eagerness among parents to have Welsh-medium education for their children. When asked, a very high percentage of people said that they would want that. That shows that attitudes have changed and that we are embarking on a more creative and positive period in Wales with regard to our self-confidence, and the language is part and parcel of that. The language certainly belongs to all of us, whether we speak Welsh or not, and that is something that should be said over and over again.

 

Yr ydych yn iawn, Helen, fod ymateb y cyhoedd wedi bod yn gadarnhaol ar y cyfan, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny. Mae’r holl bolau piniwn ar ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg yn dangos bod cryn dipyn dros 50 y cant o’r bobl yn credu y dylai’r iaith fod ar gael i’r cyhoedd wrth ddefnyddio gwasanaethau. Gwyddom hefyd fod rhieni’n awyddus iawn i gael addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg i’w plant. Pan holwyd hwy, dywedodd cyfran uchel iawn o bobl y byddent yn dymuno hynny. Mae hynny’n dangos bod agweddau wedi newid a’n bod ar drothwy cyfnod mwy creadigol a chadarnhaol yng Nghymru o ran ein hunanhyder, ac mae’r iaith yn rhan hanfodol o hynny. Mae’r iaith yn sicr yn perthyn i bob un ohonom, pa un a ydym yn siarad Cymraeg ai peidio, ac mae hynny’n rhywbeth y dylid ei ddweud dro ar ôl tro.

 

I hope that giving official status to the language will encourage people to have more confidence to use it and to expect that certain services will be provided through the medium of Welsh.

Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd rhoi statws swyddogol i’r iaith yn annog pobl i fod â mwy o hyder i’w defnyddio ac i ddisgwyl y bydd rhai gwasanaethau’n cael eu darparu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.

Nick Bourne: Diolch am y datganiad pwysig hwn. Yr ydym yn cefnogi’r iaith Gymraeg a’r materion hyn yn y Cynulliad.

Nick Bourne: Thank you for this important statement. We support the Welsh language and these matters in the Assembly.

I thank the Minister for his kind words in relation to Wyn Roberts and the earlier legislation. The Minister said that he hoped that it would make us happy, and it does, not least because Plaid Cymru voted against that legislation at the Third Reading in Westminster. However, I welcome what the Minister said.

 

Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei eiriau caredig ynglŷn â Wyn Roberts a’r ddeddfwriaeth gynharach. Dywedodd y Gweinidog ei fod yn gobeithio y byddai’n ein bodloni, ac mae yn ein bodloni, yn enwedig gan fod Plaid Cymru wedi pleidleisio yn erbyn y ddeddfwriaeth honno yn y Trydydd Darlleniad yn San Steffan. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn croesawu’r hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog.

 

The Minister will know that two of the three things that were outlined in his statement were things that we have worked on for some time as the official opposition, and of which we are proud.

Bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod bod dau o’r tri pheth a amlinellwyd yn ei ddatganiad yn bethau yr ydym wedi bod yn gweithio arnynt ers tro fel yr wrthblaid swyddogol, a’n bod yn falch ohonynt.

I pay tribute to the work of Lisa Francis, during the second Assembly, and to Paul Davies, who has continued that work in the third Assembly, on the Welsh language commissioner, looking at the Irish experience in particular, and on the question of the official status of the language. Those are mainstream proposals that were contained not only in our 2007 manifesto, but also in David Melding’s LCO—or his non-LCO, as it turned out to be; perhaps it is the most famous non-LCO so far.

Yr wyf yn rhoi teyrnged i waith Lisa Francis, yn ystod yr ail Gynulliad, ac i Paul Davies, sydd wedi parhau â’r gwaith hwnnw yn y trydydd Cynulliad, ar gomisiynydd yr Iaith Gymraeg, yn edrych ar brofiad Iwerddon yn benodol, ac ar gwestiwn statws swyddogol yr iaith. Dyna’r cynigion prif ffrwd a gynhwyswyd nid yn unig yn ein maniffesto yn 2007, ond hefyd yng Ngorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol David Melding—neu ei Orchymyn na fu, fel y digwyddodd yn y pen draw; efallai mai dyma’r Gorchymyn enwocaf na fu hyd yma.

I suspect that the devil will be in the detail on the third area. The Minister has graciously acknowledged that there will probably be a cross-party debate on some of these issues, and I am sure that there will be. The definition of public service, which the Minister referred to at some stage, will be critical to where we go with that third area. I am heartened by his statement that, largely, this will not apply to the private sector, except for the privatised utilities, which I accept are in a different position. When any proposed Measure comes forward, we will be looking carefully at those companies that receive £200,000-worth of public money for the provision of a public service.

Tybiaf mai’r manylion piau hi yn y trydydd maes. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi cydnabod yn raslon ei bod yn debygol y bydd dadl drawsbleidiol ar rai o’r materion hyn, ac yr wyf yn siŵr mai felly y bydd. Bydd diffinio gwasanaeth cyhoeddus, y cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog ato, yn allweddol o ran yr hyn a wnawn gyda’r trydydd maes hwnnw. Calondid o’r mwyaf i mi oedd ei ddatganiad na fydd hyn, gan mwyaf, yn ymwneud â’r sector preifat, heblaw’r cyfleustodau sydd wedi eu preifateiddio, yr wyf yn derbyn eu bod mewn sefyllfa wahanol. Pan gyflwynir unrhyw Fesur arfaethedig, byddwn yn edrych yn ofalus ar y cwmnïau hynny sy’n cael gwerth £200,000 o arian cyhoeddus am ddarparu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus.

I welcomed the tenor of the Minister’s statement, particularly his closing words when he said that the good work that has been accomplished on the language has been because of the consensus that has developed across the parties and across Wales in general. I very much agree with that. Long may that be the case, because, if we are able to go forward together, that takes the politics—or at least the party politics—out of this issue, and that has been invaluable in giving us a measure of success in fostering the language over the past 10 or 20 years.

Yr oeddwn yn croesawu tôn datganiad y Gweinidog, yn enwedig ei eiriau wrth gloi pan ddywedodd fod y gwaith da sydd wedi ei gyflawni ar yr iaith wedi digwydd oherwydd bod consensws wedi datblygu ymhlith y pleidiau ac ar draws Cymru’n gyffredinol. Cytunaf yn llwyr â hynny. Hir y parhaed hynny, oherwydd os gallwn symud ymlaen yn unedig, bydd hynny’n dwyn gwleidyddiaeth—neu wleidyddiaeth pleidiau o leiaf—allan ohoni, ac mae hynny wedi bod yn amhrisiadwy o ran rhoi rhywfaint o lwyddiant inni wrth feithrin yr iaith yn ystod y 10 neu’r 20 mlynedd diwethaf.

Therefore, we accept the tenor of this proposed LCO, although we reserve the right to lock horns with the Minister and with other parties on the content of any Measures that are brought forward. However, this proposed LCO is what we have been pushing for for some time; therefore no-one should be taken by surprise by the welcome that we have given it today.

Felly, yr ydym derbyn tôn y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig hwn, er ein bod yn cadw’r hawl i ddadlau â’r Gweinidog a’r pleidiau eraill ynghylch cynnwys unrhyw fesurau a gaiff eu cynnig. Fodd bynnag, buom yn gofyn am y Gorchymyn arfaethedig hwn ers amser ac felly ni ddylai’r croeso a roesom iddo heddiw beri syndod i neb.

Alun Ffred Jones: I look forward to locking horns with you, Nick, over the coming months on this proposed LCO.

Alun Ffred Jones: Edrychaf ymlaen at ddadlau â chi, Nick, yn ystod y misoedd sydd i ddod ynghylch y Gorchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol arfaethedig hwn.

Nick Bourne: It was on the Measures.

Nick Bourne: Ynghylch y Mesurau.

Alun Ffred Jones: Sorry. We need the powers first of all, and then we can deal with any Measures. That is the important message.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf. Mae angen y pwerau arnom yn gyntaf oll, yna cawn ddelio ag unrhyw Fesurau. Dyna’r neges bwysig.

You referred to the £200,000 limit when imposing expectations and duties, but it must be borne in mind that any organisation that falls within the scope of any future Measure has to be one that is there for the long term. We would not be looking to deal with a company that happens to get £200,000 for whatever reason one year but not the next, for example. We are talking about organisations and some companies that are there for the long term and are dealing with the public annually. A large, multinational company that received a public subsidy to set up in Wales is not the type of company that we would expect to deal with in any Measure. We are dealing with those that have an interface with the public in the long term in Wales, but the details, as you say, will be dealt with at a future date. I thank you all for your comments.

Cyfeiriasoch at drothwy o £200,000 o ran gosod disgwyliadau a dyletswyddau, ond rhaid cofio y bydd yn rhaid i’r cyrff hynny a fydd o fewn cwmpas unrhyw Fesur yn y dyfodol fod yn rhai a fydd yno dros y tymor hir. Ni fyddem yn bwriadu ymdrin â chwmni sy’n digwydd cael £200,000 am ba reswm bynnag ryw flwyddyn ond nid yn y flwyddyn nesaf, er enghraifft. Sôn yr ydym am gyrff a rhai cwmnïau sydd yno am y tymor hir ac sy’n delio â’r cyhoedd yn flynyddol. Ni fyddem yn disgwyl delio â chwmni rhyngwladol mawr sydd wedi cael cymhorthdal cyhoeddus i ymsefydlu yng Nghymru mewn unrhyw Fesur. Delio yr ydym â’r rhai sy’n ymwneud â’r cyhoedd yn y tymor hir yng Nghymru, ond yn ddiweddarach, fel y dywedwch, yr ymdrinnir â’r manylion. Diolch i bawb am ei sylwadau.

Egwyddorion Cyffredinol y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)
The General Principles of the Proposed Local Government (Wales) Measure

The Record

Y Llywydd: Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.19(iii), ni ddetholwyd y tri gwelliant a gyflwynwyd i’r cynnig hwn.

The Presiding Officer: In accordance with Standing Order No. 7.19(iii), the three amendments tabled to this motion have not been selected.

The Minister for Social Justice and Local Government (Brian Gibbons): I propose that

Y Gweinidog dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a Llywodraeth Leol (Brian Gibbons): Cynigiaf fod

the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order No. 23.24:

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 23.24:

agrees to the general principles of the proposed Local Government (Wales) Measure. (NDM4121)

yn cytuno ar egwyddorion cyffredinol y Mesur arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru). (NDM4121)

I am pleased to have the opportunity to open this debate on the general principles of the Proposed Local Government (Wales) Measure, which I introduced to the Assembly last September.

Yr wyf yn falch o’r cyfle i agor y ddadl hon ynghylch egwyddorion cyffredinol y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru), a gyflwynais gerbron y Cynulliad fis Medi diwethaf.

The proposed Measure’s broad purpose is to overhaul and unify the statutory regimes for local service improvement and strategic planning by local authorities, national park authorities, fire and rescue authorities and their partners. It aims to make those regimes more effective, better co-ordinated and more responsive to local needs and contexts. In short, it creates opportunities for local authorities and others to serve citizens better, which is vital if we are to secure sustainable improvements in our public services.  

Pwrpas y Mesur arfaethedig yn fras yw adnewyddu ac uno’r cyfundrefnau statudol sy’n ymwneud â gwella gwasanaethau lleol a chynllunio strategol gan awdurdodau lleol, awdurdodau parciau cenedlaethol, awdurdodau tân ac achub a’u partneriaid. Mae’n ceisio gwneud y cyfundrefnau hynny’n fwy effeithiol, eu cydlynu’n well, eu gwneud yn fwy ymatebol i anghenion lleol a’r cyd-destun lleol. Yn gryno, mae’n creu cyfleoedd i awdurdodau lleol ac eraill wasanaethu’r dinasyddion yn well, sy’n allweddol os ydym am sicrhau gwelliannau cynaliadwy yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.  

4.50 p.m.

 

I am grateful to Janice Gregory and the members of the Proposed Local Government Measure Committee for their careful and thoughtful scrutiny, as well as to their colleagues on the Finance Committee and the Subordinate Legislation Committee. I am encouraged by the supportive evidence provided by stakeholders during the Stage 1 committee sessions, and I welcome their general consensus in favour of the proposed Measure. I agree that a number of the issues raised in the committees’ reports have merit. I aim to respond positively to many of the recommendations, either through guidance or by Government amendment.  

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Janice Gregory ac aelodau Pwyllgor y Mesur Arfaethedig ynghylch Llywodraeth Leol am eu gwaith craffu gofalus a meddylgar, ac i’w cyd-aelodau ar y Pwyllgor Cyllid a’r Pwyllgor Is-ddeddfwriaeth. Calondid imi oedd y dystiolaeth gefnogol a roddwyd gan y rhanddeiliaid yn ystod sesiynau pwyllgor Cyfnod 1, ac yr wyf yn croesawu’r consensws cyffredinol ganddynt o blaid y Mesur. Cytunaf fod rhinweddau i nifer o’r materion a godwyd yn adroddiadau’r pwyllgorau. Bwriadaf ymateb yn gadarnhaol i lawer o’r argymhellion, naill ai drwy ganllawiau neu drwy welliant gan y Llywodraeth.  

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Rosemary Butler) i’r Gadair am 4.50 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Rosemary Butler) took the Chair at 4.50 p.m.

The Record

I turn next to some of the points raised by the committees and give Members the undertakings that I can at this stage. The committee discussed in depth the detail and complexity of the proposed Measure but concluded that, overall, it was justified. I accept that the proposed Measure is detailed and, in places, complex. The subject itself is fairly complex, and many of the areas that we are striving to deal with have never before been dealt with in legislation. However, while it is complex, I cannot agree that it is unduly prescriptive; on the contrary, it introduces and confers on authorities several substantial new flexibilities in the way in which they define themselves, monitor, and account for improvements. I will consider fully any proposals at Stage 2 that seek to simplify the proposed Measure, and I may make some myself, but I cannot agree with the general argument put forward about its complexity.

Yr wyf am droi at rai o’r pwyntiau a godwyd gan y pwyllgorau a rhoi’r ymrwymiadau a allaf i’r Aelodau ar hyn o bryd. Trafododd y pwyllgor fanylion a chymhlethdod y Mesur arfaethedig yn drylwyr ond daeth i’r casgliad, yn gyffredinol, fod cyfiawnhad dros hynny. Derbyniaf fod y Mesur arfaethedig yn fanwl a’i fod yn gymhleth mewn mannau. Mae’r pwnc ei hun yn weddol gymhleth, ac nid ymdriniwyd â llawer o’r meysydd yr ydym yn ceisio ymdrin â hwy mewn deddfwriaeth o’r blaen. Fodd bynnag, er ei fod yn gymhleth, ni chytunaf ei fod yn rhy haearnaidd; i’r gwrthwyneb, mae’n rhoi hyblygrwydd sylweddol a newydd i awdurdodau o ran sut y maent yn eu diffinio’u hunain, yn monitro, ac yn rhoi cyfrif am welliannau. Ystyriaf unrhyw gynigion yng Nghyfnod 2 a fydd yn ceisio symleiddio’r Mesur arfaethedig, ac mae’n bosibl y gwnaf rai fy hun, ond ni allaf gytuno â’r ddadl gyffredinol a gyflwynwyd ynghylch ei gymhlethdod.

The committee agreed with the Welsh Local Government Association that improvements should consistently embrace the functions and services of local authorities. That may seem to be a fine distinction, but the role of local authorities goes beyond service provision to include such matters as democratic representation, community leadership and the stewardship of public funds. Therefore, the case has been made. It is important that we recognise that these functions are just as important as the services that are provided for members of the public.

Cytunodd y pwyllgor â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru y dylai gwelliannau gynnwys swyddogaethau a gwasanaethau awdurdodau lleol yn gyson. Efallai fod hwnnw i’w weld yn wahaniaeth main iawn, ond mae rôl awdurdodau lleol yn mynd yn bellach na darparu gwasanaethau gan gynnwys materion megis cynrychiolaeth ddemocrataidd, arweiniad cymunedol a stiwardiaeth dros arian cyhoeddus. Felly, mae’r achos wedi ei wneud. Mae’n bwysig inni gydnabod bod y swyddogaethau hyn cyn bwysiced â’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir ar gyfer aelodau o’r cyhoedd.

Both the proposed Measure committee and the Subordinate Legislation Committee considered that, in several places, we had not adequately addressed the need to consult stakeholders before the Welsh Ministers exercise their functions under the proposed Measure. Those included our powers to specify performance indicators, to amend the range of regulatory bodies covered by the proposed Measure, and to provide support to local authorities. In practice, we would always consult before exercising those functions, as our local government partnership scheme requires. However, I agree that it would be helpful to put the matter beyond argument.

Ystyriai pwyllgor y Mesur arfaethedig a’r Pwyllgor Is-ddeddfwriaeth nad oeddem, mewn nifer o fannau, wedi rhoi digon o sylw i’r angen i ymgynghori â’r rhanddeiliaid cyn i Weinidogion Cymu arfer y swyddogaethau sydd ganddynt dan y Mesur arfaethedig. Yr oedd y rheini’n cynnwys y pwerau sydd gennym i bennu dangosyddion perfformiad, i ddiwygio’r amrywiaeth o gyrff rheoleiddio a gynhwysir dan y Mesur arfaethedig, ac i roi cymorth i awdurdodau lleol. Yn ymarferol, byddem yn ymgynghori bob tro cyn arfer y swyddogaethau hynny, fel sy’n ofynnol dan ein cynllun partneriaeth gyda llywodraeth leol. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn cytuno y byddai’n ddefnyddiol sicrhau nad oes dim amheuaeth ynghylch y mater.

The proposed Measure’s provisions about audit, regulation and inspection have also attracted debate and controversy. We are trying to improve regulatory co-ordination in line with the Minister for Finance and Public Service Delivery’s recent consultation on ins