Trwy barhau i ddefnyddio'r wefan, rydych yn cytuno i osod nifer fechan o gwcis. Polisi cwcis

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Nôl i'r rhestr dogfennau Gweld y dudalen hon heb lincs
Cofnod y Trafodion The Record of Proceedings
27/09/2017
Cynnwys Contents Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer 1. Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol 1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government 2. Cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad 2. Questions to the Assembly Commission 3. Cwestiynau Amserol 3. Topical Questions 4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad 4. 90-second Statements 5. Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog 26 mewn perthynas â Biliau Pwyllgorau 5. Motion to Amend Standing Order 26 in relation to Committee Bills 6. Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheolau Sefydlog 11, 12 a 13 mewn perthynas â Deddf Cymru 2017 ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru 6. Motion to Amend Standing Orders 11, 12 and 13 in relation to the Wales Act 2017 and the Secretary of State for Wales 7. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad 01-17 i'r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 22.9 7. Debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee's Report 01-17 to the Assembly under Standing Order 22.9 8. Dadl ar Adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau: ‘Ar y trywydd iawn? Masnachfraint y Rheilffyrdd a Metro De Cymru’ 8. Debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee Report: ‘On the right track? The Rail Franchise and South Wales Metro’ 9. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol ar ei ‘Ymchwiliad i ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol—beth nesaf i Gymru?’ 9. Debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee's Report on their ‘Inquiry into the future of regional policy—what next for Wales?’ 10. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Strategaeth Genedlaethol Llywodraeth Cymru 10. Welsh Conservatives Debate: The Welsh Government’s National Strategy 11. Cyfnod Pleidleisio 11. Voting Time 12. Dadl Fer: Dŵr Ffo o'r Mynydd ac ar ein Ffyrdd—A All Cymru Atal Problem Gorlifo Sydyn? 12. Short Debate: 'Running off that Road, Running Down that Hill'—Can Wales Hold Back the Tide of Flash Flooding?
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) in the Chair.
 
13:30
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Well, good afternoon. Can I call Members to order, please? Thank you.
Wel, prynhawn da. A gaf fi alw’r Aelodau i drefn, os gwelwch yn dda? Diolch.
 
13:30
Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd
Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Before we move to item 1 on the agenda, I would like to warmly welcome Speaker Christopher Collins and Clerk Mr Donald Forestell of the Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick, Canada, who have joined us in the public gallery.
Cyn symud at eitem 1 ar yr agenda, hoffwn roi croeso cynnes i’r Llefarydd Christopher Collins a’r Clerc Mr Donald Forestell o Gynulliad Deddfwriaethol New Brunswick, Canada, sydd wedi ymuno â ni yn yr oriel gyhoeddus.
 
Croeso cynnes iawn i’r Senedd.
A very warm welcome to the Senedd.
 
A very warm welcome to the Senedd.
Croeso cynnes iawn i’r Senedd.
 
1. Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol
1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government
Mae [R] yn dynodi bod yr Aelod wedi datgan buddiant. Mae [W] yn dynodi bod y cwestiwn wedi’i gyflwyno yn Gymraeg.
[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.
 
13:30
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
So, item 1 is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. And the first question is Huw Irranca-Davies.
Felly, yr eitem gyntaf yw cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol. A daw’r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Huw Irranca-Davies.
 
Y Cod Ymarfer ar gyfer Cyflogaeth Foesegol
The Code of Practice for Ethical Employment
 
13:30
Huw Irranca-DaviesBywgraffiadBiography
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. And I feel I’m under pressure now, with our esteemed visitors in the gallery.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ac rwy’n teimlo fy mod o dan bwysau yn awr, gyda’n hymwelwyr nodedig yn yr oriel.
 
1. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet egluro sut y mae’n bwriadu asesu gweithrediad y cod ymarfer ar gyfer cyflogaeth foesegol mewn cadwyni cyflenwi yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru? (OAQ51064)
1. Will the Cabinet Secretary explain how he intends to assess the implementation of the code of practice for ethical employment in supply chains in the Welsh public sector? (OAQ51064)
 
13:30
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiographyYsgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol / The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, implementation of the code will be monitored through annual reporting by public bodies. I also expect those reports to be considered by our social partners at the workforce partnership council.
Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, bydd y broses o weithredu’r cod yn cael ei monitro drwy adroddiadau blynyddol gan gyrff cyhoeddus. Rwyf hefyd yn disgwyl i’n partneriaid cymdeithasol yng nghyngor partneriaeth y gweithlu ystyried yr adroddiadau hynny.
 
13:31
Huw Irranca-DaviesBywgraffiadBiography
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that answer. And could I say, as the chair of the cross-party group on universities—and I know I have fellow members here—how welcome was the announcement by the chair of University Wales, Professor Colin Riordan, when he said that, by the end of July 2017, all Welsh universities will have to become signatories to the Welsh Government’s code of practice for ethical employment in supply chains? And he went on to say—and this is the practical implementation—that Universities Wales members are committed to paying the Living Wage Foundation’s living wage to all directly employed higher education staff by 2018-19, and to starting the process of implementing the living wage across their outsourced HE activity. Does he agree with me that we should all as Assembly Members, of all parties, take pride in this part of the devolution dividend, when this Assembly, and this Welsh Government, can force the pace of progressive change in employment?
Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei ateb. Ac a gaf fi ddweud, fel Cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar brifysgolion—a gwn fod cyd-aelodau o’r pwyllgor yma—fy mod yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad gan Gadeirydd Prifysgol Cymru, yr Athro Colin Riordan, pan ddywedodd y byddai’n rhaid i holl brifysgolion Cymru, erbyn diwedd mis Gorffennaf 2017, gytuno i god ymarfer Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyflogaeth foesegol mewn cadwyni cyflenwi? Ac aeth yn ei flaen i ddweud—a dyma’r gweithrediad ymarferol—fod aelodau Prifysgolion Cymru wedi ymrwymo i dalu cyflog byw’r Living Wage Foundation i bob aelod o staff a gyflogir yn uniongyrchol mewn addysg uwch erbyn 2018-19, ac i ddechrau’r broses o roi’r cyflog byw ar waith mewn perthynas â gweithgarwch allanol o fewn addysg uwch. A yw’n cytuno â mi y dylai pob un ohonom, fel Aelodau’r Cynulliad o bob plaid, ymfalchïo yn y rhan hon o’r difidend datganoli, pan fo’r Cynulliad hwn a Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu cyflymu newid blaengar mewn cyflogaeth?
 
13:32
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, can I thank the Member for that? I absolutely agree with him that the code is an example of how we have been able to use the powers available to us to break new ground, in ensuring that, in the supply chains that are there in the Welsh public sector, ethical employment is at the heart of the way in which goods and services are procured. Now, the code was only signed off at the workforce partnership council in March of this year, so it was great to see Higher Education Wales very early into the field, in making their commitment to sign up to the code and its consequences. Since then, we know that all police forces in Wales are going to be signatories to the code. We have local authorities in Wales signing up to it, housing associations, there are 20 private sector and third sector organisations already signed up to it, and, of course, the Welsh Government itself is a signatory to the code. And I look forward very much to seeing that code rolled out further, doing the work that we need it to do, and then to be able to report on its impact in supply chains in the Welsh public sector over the months ahead.
Wel, a gaf fi ddiolch i’r Aelod am hynny? Rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr ag ef fod y cod yn enghraifft o sut rydym wedi gallu defnyddio’r pwerau sydd ar gael inni er mwyn torri tir newydd, a sicrhau bod cyflogaeth foesegol yn ganolog i’r ffordd y caiff nwyddau a gwasanaethau eu caffael mewn cadwyni cyflenwi yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Nawr, dim ond ym mis Mawrth eleni y cymeradwywyd y cod yng nghyngor partneriaeth y gweithlu, felly roedd yn braf gweld Addysg Uwch Cymru yn mynd ati’n gynnar iawn i ymrwymo i gytuno i’r cod a’i ganlyniadau. Ers hynny, gwyddom y bydd yr holl heddluoedd yng Nghymru yn cytuno i’r cod. Mae gennym awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn cytuno iddo, cymdeithasau tai, mae 20 o sefydliadau’r sector preifat a’r trydydd sector eisoes wedi cytuno iddo, ac wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun wedi cytuno i’r cod. Ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at weld y cod yn cael ei roi ar waith ar raddfa ehangach, gan wneud y gwaith rydym angen iddo ei wneud, ac i allu adrodd wedyn ar ei effaith mewn cadwyni cyflenwi yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru dros y misoedd i ddod.
 
13:33
The code of practice, of course, sets out actions to tackle illegal and unfair employment practices. And, as Huw Irranca-Davies indicated, paying less than the living wage is unfair employment practice, and we are all aware of allegations made in both the care and the hospitality sectors, because services from those sectors can be procured by public services, of course. Is it possible that the mechanisms you mentioned a little bit earlier can miss picking up those instances where employers say they’re paying the living wage, but may not, in fact, be doing so?
Mae’r cod ymarfer, wrth gwrs, yn nodi camau gweithredu i fynd i’r afael ag arferion cyflogaeth anghyfreithlon ac annheg. Ac fel y dywedodd Huw Irranca-Davies, mae talu llai na’r cyflog byw yn arfer cyflogaeth annheg, a gŵyr pob un ohonom am honiadau a wnaed yn y sector gofal a’r sector lletygarwch, gan fod modd i wasanaethau cyhoeddus gaffael gwasanaethau yn y sectorau hynny wrth gwrs. A yw’n bosibl y gallai’r mecanweithiau a grybwyllwyd gennych ychydig yn gynharach fethu nodi’r achosion hynny pan fo cyflogwyr yn dweud eu bod yn talu’r cyflog byw, ond efallai nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny mewn gwirionedd?
 
13:33
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, it is very important—I agree with Suzy Davies—that we are alert to those instances where employers try to subvert the minimum wage. We know that there are instances, sadly, in Wales where, through tied accommodation, or tied transport, for example, in effect, people are paid below the statutory minimum. Now, we rely on our trade union colleagues very heavily to be part of that network that alerts us to those instances when they happen.
Wel, mae’n bwysig iawn—rwy’n cytuno â Suzy Davies—ein bod yn effro i achosion lle y mae cyflogwyr yn ceisio tanseilio’r isafswm cyflog. Gwyddom fod enghreifftiau, yn anffodus, yng Nghymru lle y mae pobl, er enghraifft, drwy lety ynghlwm wrth waith neu gludiant ynghlwm wrth waith, yn cael eu talu islaw’r isafswm statudol i bob pwrpas. Nawr, rydym yn dibynnu ar ein cydweithwyr yn yr undebau llafur i fod yn rhan o’r rhwydwaith sy’n tynnu ein sylw at achosion o’r fath pan fyddant yn codi.
 
The document that we published as a Government a couple of weeks ago on fair movement of people sets out a series of actions that we believe the UK Government needs to take to make sure that the rights that people have at that part of a labour market are properly protected, but steps that the Welsh Government intends to take as well, to make sure that, where people are not having their rights properly observed, we have strong mechanisms for identifying those instances, and then pursuing them.
Mae’r ddogfen a gyhoeddwyd gennym fel Llywodraeth rai wythnosau yn ôl ar degwch o ran symudiad pobl yn nodi cyfres o gamau y credwn fod angen i Lywodraeth y DU eu cymryd er mwyn sicrhau bod yr hawliau sydd gan bobl yn y rhan honno o farchnad lafur yn cael eu diogelu’n briodol, yn ogystal â’r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gennym fecanweithiau cadarn ar waith i nodi achosion pan nad yw hawliau pobl yn cael eu parchu, a mynd i’r afael â’r achosion hynny wedyn.
 
Bargen Dwf i Ganolbarth Cymru
A Mid Wales Growth Deal
 
13:35
Russell GeorgeBywgraffiadBiography
2. Pa ystyriaeth y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi'i rhoi i sefydlu bargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru? (OAQ51067)
2. What consideration has the Cabinet Secretary given to the establishment of a mid-Wales growth deal? (OAQ51067)
 
13:35
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I thank Russell George for that question. The possibility of a growth deal for mid Wales has been discussed in a number of meetings that I have attended with the leaders of Ceredigion and Powys county councils, both before and after this year’s local authority elections. Informal, official-level discussions have also taken place. Local bodies continue to take the lead in developing any growth deal proposition.
Diolch i Russell George am ei gwestiwn. Mae’r posibilrwydd o fargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru wedi cael ei drafod mewn nifer o gyfarfodydd a fynychais gydag arweinwyr cynghorau sir Ceredigion a Phowys, cyn ac ar ôl etholiadau’r awdurdodau lleol eleni. Cynhaliwyd trafodaethau anffurfiol ar lefel swyddogol hefyd. Mae cyrff lleol yn parhau i arwain y gwaith o ddatblygu unrhyw gynnig ar y fargen dwf.
 
13:35
Russell GeorgeBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. As we know, economic development is the backbone to rural economies’ survival. I was pleased that the First Minister confirmed last week, in his statement on the national strategy, that the Welsh Government will be looking at creating a mid Wales growth deal to support the economy of the region. So, on that basis, can I ask what initial finance you have considered putting in place to support early work that will be required to make a mid Wales growth deal a reality?
Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fel y gwyddom, datblygu economaidd yw asgwrn cefn goroesiad economïau gwledig. Roeddwn yn falch o weld y Prif Weinidog yn cadarnhau, yn ei ddatganiad ar y strategaeth genedlaethol yr wythnos diwethaf, y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried creu bargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru er mwyn cefnogi economi’r rhanbarth. Felly, ar y sail honno, a gaf i ofyn pa gyllid cychwynnol rydych wedi ystyried ei roi ar waith i gynorthwyo’r gwaith cynnar y bydd ei angen er mwyn gwireddu bargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru?
 
13:36
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
To date, Chair, the funding that has been needed to develop the idea has been contributed by those who have been members of the partnership that has been set up: members drawn from the private sector, from manufacturing, agriculture and tourism, together with higher and further education, the voluntary sector and local government. Where the Welsh Government and, indeed, the UK Government will come into the picture, should a growth deal be developed, is when we get to the point of having specific ideas identified, a core set of purposes, an agreed set of priorities, and then, we are committed to discussing purposefully with the UK Government and with local players the financial contribution that the Welsh Government may be able to make to such a deal.
Hyd yn hyn, Cadeirydd, mae’r arian sydd wedi bod yn angenrheidiol er mwyn datblygu’r syniad wedi cael ei gyfrannu gan y rhai a fu’n aelodau o’r bartneriaeth a sefydlwyd: aelodau o’r sector preifat, o weithgynhyrchu, amaethyddiaeth a thwristiaeth, ynghyd ag addysg uwch, addysg bellach, y sector gwirfoddol a llywodraeth leol. Daw Llywodraeth Cymru, ac yn wir, Llywodraeth y DU, yn rhan o’r peth, pe bai bargen dwf yn cael ei datblygu, pan ddaw’n bryd nodi syniadau penodol, set o ddibenion craidd, set o flaenoriaethau y cytunwyd arnynt, ac yna, byddwn yn ymrwymo i gynnal trafodaethau pwrpasol gyda Llywodraeth y DU, a chyda chynrychiolwyr lleol ynglŷn â’r cyfraniad ariannol y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i fargen o’r fath.
 
13:37
A gaf i yn gyntaf groesawu’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet a’i fod e yma heddiw yn hytrach nag yn gwrando ar ei arweinydd yn Brighton? Mae’n siŵr y byddai’n well gyda fe fod ar lan y môr yn fanna, ond rydym ni’n falch iawn o’i weld e fan hyn. Os caf i ofyn yn benodol ar y cysyniad yma o ryw fath o fargen dwf ar gyfer y canolbarth? Hefyd, mae’n rhaid meddwl yn nhermau’r gorllewin i gyd, yn fy marn i, achos mae gyda ni beth sy’n digwydd yn y de, rydym ni’n gwybod am y dinas-ranbarthau, a rhywbeth penodol gan y Llywodraeth hon a Llywodraeth Llundain yn fanna. Yn y gogledd, mae yna gysyniad yn mynd ar draws y gogledd, ac, wrth gwrs, mae cysylltiadau dros y ffin i Loegr a gwahanol gytundebau dinasoedd yn fanna. Mae yna wacter yn y canol, a beth rwy’n chwilio amdano gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet heddiw yw rhyw fath o syniad ganddo fe o ble mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn sefyll o ran hynny? A ydych chi’n credu y dylid llanw’r gwacter yna gyda rhyw fath o fargen neu gytundeb twf ar gyfer yr ardaloedd? Rwy’n gwybod bod rhaid iddo fe gael ei dyfu o’r gwaelod i fyny, ond a ydych chi’n awyddus i weld hynny’n digwydd?
May I first of all welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary is here today, rather than listening to his leader in Brighton? I’m sure he would prefer to be at the seaside there, but we are very pleased to have him here. May I ask specifically about this concept of some sort of growth deal for mid Wales? We must think in terms of the whole of west Wales, in my view, because we have what’s happening in south Wales, we know about the city regions, and there is something specific in that regard from the Government here and the Government in Westminster. In north Wales, there is this concept of the pan-north Wales, and there are links over the border to England and different agreements with cities there. But there is a void in the middle, and what I’m seeking here from the Cabinet Secretary today is some sort of idea of where this Government stands on that. Do you believe that we should fill that void, or vacuum, with some sort of growth deal for those areas? I know that it has to be grown from the bottom up, but are you eager to see that happening?
 
13:38
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Rydym ni yn awyddus, Dirprwy Lywydd, wrth gwrs, ac rydym ni’n awyddus i gefnogi pobl leol sy’n gweithio ar bosibiliadau am y dyfodol. Nid wyf i’n dechrau o rywle ble rwy’n meddwl bod rhaid i bob lle yng Nghymru gael rhyw fath o fargen, ond, ble mae diddordeb gyda phobl leol, a ble maen nhw’n ymwybodol, fel roedd Simon Thomas yn ei ddweud, am sut maen nhw’n mynd i weithio dros y ffin gyda phobl eraill mewn sefyllfa arall, yn Lloegr, neu yng Nghymru, rydym ni’n awyddus fel Llywodraeth i’w cefnogi nhw, i weithio gyda nhw, a gweld os maen nhw’n gallu creu syniadau sy’n mynd i weithio i bobl leol, ble rŷm ni a Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn gallu helpu i’w hariannu nhw ar gyfer yr uchelgais y maen nhw’n eu greu yno.
We are eager, Deputy Presiding Officer, naturally, and we are eager to support local people who are working on future possibilities. We are not starting from a point where we say every place in Wales has to have some kind of deal, but where local people are interested, and where they are aware, as Simon Thomas said, if they are aware of how they want to engage in cross boundary or broader working with other people, either in England or in Wales, then we as a Government are eager to support them and work with them to see whether it is possible for them to generate ideas that’ll work for local people and where both we and the UK Government can assist in supporting them financially in relation to their ambition.
 
13:39
Is the Cabinet Secretary aware that, on Friday, I spoke at a meeting of the rural division of the Welsh Local Government Association, where I encouraged the councils that were present there—Ceredigion, Powys, Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, Gwynedd and Anglesey—to work together to develop a broader, place-based rural deal, which they agreed to do? I wondered, in terms of the possibility that the new economic structure to deliver economic development that is supposed to be based on the footprints of city deals, whether the Cabinet Secretary would speak to his economy Secretary to consider the opportunity, further on down the line, if a rural deal is developed, that that new structure may be considered as a new grouping in that new economic structure.
A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ymwybodol fy mod wedi siarad, ddydd Gwener, yn un o gyfarfodydd is-adran wledig Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, lle yr anogais y cynghorau a oedd yn bresennol—Ceredigion, Powys, Sir Benfro, Sir Gaerfyrddin, Gwynedd ac Ynys Môn—i gydweithio i ddatblygu bargen wledig ehangach, yn seiliedig ar le, a’u bod wedi cytuno i wneud hynny? O ran y posibilrwydd fod y strwythur economaidd newydd i sicrhau bod datblygu economaidd yn seiliedig ar hanfodion bargeinion dinesig, tybed a fyddai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn siarad â’i Ysgrifennydd dros yr economi i ystyried y posibilrwydd, yn nes ymlaen, pe bai bargen wledig yn cael ei datblygu, y gellir ystyried y strwythur newydd hwnnw fel grŵp newydd o fewn y strwythur economaidd newydd hwnnw.
 
13:40
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I thank Eluned Morgan for that. I was indeed aware of the fact that she was speaking with the WLGA and at the group of rural councils on Friday of last week, and no doubt following up in that discussion the report that she herself put together earlier in the year.
Diolch i Eluned Morgan. Roeddwn yn ymwybodol, yn wir, ei bod wedi bod yn siarad â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac yn y grŵp o gynghorau gwledig ddydd Gwener diwethaf, a heb os, ei bod wedi mynd ar drywydd adroddiad a luniwyd ganddi hi ei hun yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn yn y drafodaeth honno.
 
I think the point that I would make is a point that Simon Thomas started with: that we will need some flexibility to allow arrangements that lie under the umbrella of the wider regional arrangements that we are setting up to be able to take root and prosper where those ideas are good ones. In this Chamber, quite often, Sian Gwenllian has raised the need for a regional arrangement that links the whole of the western side of Wales, building on the report that Rhodri Glyn Thomas produced for the Welsh Government about a year or so ago. So there’s another example of where, within the umbrellas of regional arrangements that the Welsh Government is pursuing, we will need some flexibility to allow arrangements that sometimes cut across those boundaries and sometimes operate within them. We’ll need the necessary flexibility to allow those ideas to be pursued and, where possible, to be brought to fruition.
Credaf mai’r pwynt yr hoffwn ei wneud yw’r pwynt a wnaeth Simon Thomas ar y dechrau: y bydd arnom angen rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd er mwyn caniatáu i drefniadau a gwmpesir yn y trefniadau rhanbarthol ehangach rydym yn eu sefydlu allu gwreiddio a ffynnu pan fo’r syniadau hynny’n rhai da. Yn y Siambr hon, yn aml iawn, mae Sian Gwenllian wedi codi’r angen am drefniant rhanbarthol sy’n cysylltu ochr orllewinol Cymru gyda’i gilydd, gan adeiladu ar yr adroddiad a gynhyrchodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru oddeutu blwyddyn yn ôl. Felly, dyna enghraifft arall o ble y bydd angen rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd arnom o fewn cwmpas y trefniadau rhanbarthol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn awyddus i’w cael, er mwyn sicrhau trefniadau sydd weithiau’n croesi’r ffiniau hynny ac weithiau’n gweithredu y tu mewn iddynt. Byddwn angen yr hyblygrwydd angenrheidiol i ganiatáu i’r syniadau hynny gael eu harchwilio a’u rhoi ar waith lle y bo modd.
 
Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople
 
13:41
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
We’ll now turn to spokespeople’s questions, and the first spokesperson today is Conservative spokesperson, Nick Ramsay.
Symudwn yn awr at gwestiynau’r llefarwyr, a’r llefarydd cyntaf heddiw yw llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Nick Ramsay.
 
13:41
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, this year’s Welsh Government budget represents a milestone in this the twentieth year of devolution. It’s the first budget that will cover a period that will include tax devolution, of land transaction tax and land disposals tax in the first instance, kicking off from April next year. I know that you’ve been heavily involved with me in the Finance Committee in devising those taxes. Can I ask you: can you update us on the rates of the new taxes?
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru yn garreg filltir eleni a hithau’n ugain mlynedd ers datganoli. Dyma’r gyllideb gyntaf a fydd yn cwmpasu cyfnod a fydd yn cynnwys datganoli trethi, mewn perthynas â threth trafodiadau tir a threth gwarediadau tir i gychwyn, gan ddechrau o fis Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen. Gwn eich bod wedi bod yn gweithio’n agos gyda mi yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar lunio’r trethi hynny. A gaf fi ofyn i chi: a allwch roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â chyfraddau’r trethi newydd?
 
13:42
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
I suppose it lies under ‘a good try’ sort of question. Llywydd, I will be announcing rates and bands for landfill disposals tax and land transaction tax in the draft budget that I will lay in front of this Assembly on Tuesday of next week, 3 October.
Mae’n debyg mai math o gwestiwn ‘ymgais dda’ oedd hwnnw. Llywydd, byddaf yn cyhoeddi cyfraddau a bandiau ar gyfer y dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi a threth trafodiadau tir yn y gyllideb ddrafft y byddaf yn ei chyflwyno i’r Cynulliad hwn ddydd Mawrth nesaf, 3 Hydref.
 
13:42
I think the Cabinet Secretary knows where I’m coming from on this, because I’ve checked the Welsh Government website page, which you may or may not be aware of, in regard to LTT, which says that the rates and bands will be announced, or were due to be announced, by the end of this month, by October 2017. So, there is not much time left for that announcement. If the information isn’t going to be published by that deadline, then can we be absolutely sure that it will be announced next week in the draft budget, and can we be sure that there will be full detail of the rates and bands as well, and not leaving us waiting for further information further down the line?
Credaf fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn deall pam rwy’n gofyn, gan fy mod wedi gwirio tudalen ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru, y mae’n bosibl y byddwch yn ymwybodol ohoni, mewn perthynas â threth trafodiadau tir, sy’n dweud y bydd y cyfraddau a’r bandiau’n cael eu cyhoeddi, neu fod disgwyl iddynt gael eu cyhoeddi, erbyn diwedd y mis hwn, erbyn Hydref 2017. Felly, nid oes llawer o amser ar ôl ar gyfer y cyhoeddiad hwnnw. Os na fydd y wybodaeth yn cael ei chyhoeddi erbyn y dyddiad hwnnw, a allwn fod yn gwbl sicr y caiff ei chyhoeddi yr wythnos nesaf yn y gyllideb ddrafft, ac a allwn fod yn sicr y bydd yn cynnwys yr holl fanylion am y cyfraddau a’r bandiau hefyd, yn hytrach na’i bod yn ein gorfodi i aros am fwy o wybodaeth yn nes ymlaen?
 
13:43
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Chair, the Member will be aware, I know, that in correspondence with the chair of the Finance Committee it was agreed that announcements on rates and bands would happen on 3 October as part of a whole-budget package that I will be announcing on the floor of this Assembly next week. I’m very happy to give the Member that assurance that the rates and bands that the Welsh Government proposes will be set out in full on that day.
Cadeirydd, gwn y bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, mewn gohebiaeth â chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid, y cytunwyd y byddai’r cyhoeddiadau ar gyfraddau a bandiau yn cael eu gwneud ar 3 Hydref fel rhan o becyn y gyllideb gyfan y byddaf yn ei gyhoeddi ar lawr y Cynulliad yr wythnos nesaf. Rwy’n fwy na pharod i roi sicrwydd i’r Aelod y bydd y cyfraddau a’r bandiau a gynigir gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn cael eu nodi’n llawn ar y diwrnod hwnnw.
 
13:43
As you know, Cabinet Secretary, some of us on the Finance Committee, and indeed other Members of the Chamber in general, did feel that there was a very strong argument at the time for having the tax rates and bands on the face of the Bill, but your commitment at Stage 2 to publish the rates well in advance of April went a long way to allaying these concerns—a commitment that you repeated on 28 March in this Chamber, which, according to the Record, says that you said they would be published by 1 October, and I think that is the commitment that was given to the Finance Committee. [Interruption.] Okay. I’m not going to be pedantic about it at this point, Cabinet Secretary. You have committed to publish those rates and bands next week. I’ve already asked you if you will ensure that we do get the full information. Will you agree with me that the Welsh taxpayer does, at this milestone point of devolution of taxation, need to have full confidence that they do have the information at their disposal in advance of April so that, when we do get to that point of tax devolution, we have the smoothest transition possible, and we get the successful tax devolution that everyone in this Chamber would want.
Fel y gwyddoch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, roedd rhai ohonom yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid, ac yn wir, rhai o Aelodau eraill y Siambr yn gyffredinol, yn teimlo bod yna ddadl gref iawn ar y pryd dros gynnwys y cyfraddau a’r bandiau treth ar wyneb y Bil, ond roedd eich ymrwymiad yng Nghyfnod 2 i gyhoeddi’r cyfraddau ymhell cyn mis Ebrill yn gwneud llawer i liniaru’r pryderon hyn—ymrwymiad a ailadroddoch ar 28 Mawrth yn y Siambr hon, a nodai, yn ôl y Cofnod, eich bod wedi dweud y byddent yn cael eu cyhoeddi erbyn 1 Hydref, a chredaf mai dyna’r ymrwymiad a roddwyd i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid. [Torri ar draws.] O’r gorau. Nid wyf am fod yn bedantig am y peth ar hyn o bryd, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Rydych wedi ymrwymo i gyhoeddi’r cyfraddau a’r bandiau hynny yr wythnos nesaf. Rwyf eisoes wedi gofyn i chi sicrhau y byddwn yn cael yr holl wybodaeth. Wrth inni gyrraedd y garreg filltir hon o ran datganoli trethi, a ydych yn cytuno fod yn rhaid i drethdalwyr Cymru fod yn hyderus y bydd yr holl wybodaeth ar gael iddynt cyn mis Ebrill er mwyn inni allu sicrhau, pan fyddwn yn cyrraedd y pwynt hwnnw mewn perthynas â datganoli trethi, fod y cyfnod pontio mor ddidrafferth â phosibl, a bod y broses o ddatganoli trethi yn llwyddo yn unol â dymuniadau pawb yn y Siambr hon.
 
13:44
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Dirprwy Lywydd, Nick Ramsay has made that point very consistently during the passage of both tax Bills, and in the Finance Committee, that certainty for Welsh taxpayers as we move into the new set of arrangements is very important, as is certainty for businesses. That is why I was happy to make that commitment to make an early announcement on the Government’s intentions in relation to rates and bands, and by announcing it on 3 October in the context of the budget as a whole, I think that that will assist people in understanding why we’ve come to the decisions we have come to. Alongside the budget, we will publish a whole new set of information that has not previously been available to the Assembly, including, for example, the Bangor business school’s independent assessment of the tax forecasting that lies behind the rates and bands that I will be announcing.
Dirprwy Lywydd, mae Nick Ramsay wedi gwneud y pwynt yn gyson iawn yn ystod taith y ddau Fil treth ac yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid, fod y sicrwydd hwnnw i drethdalwyr Cymru wrth inni symud tuag at y set newydd o drefniadau yn bwysig iawn, fel y mae sicrwydd i fusnesau. Dyna pam roeddwn yn fwy na pharod i ymrwymo i wneud cyhoeddiad cynnar ar fwriad y Llywodraeth mewn perthynas â chyfraddau a bandiau, a thrwy gyhoeddi hynny ar 3 Hydref yng nghyd-destun y gyllideb yn gyffredinol, credaf y bydd hynny’n gymorth i bobl ddeall pam ein bod wedi gwneud y penderfyniadau a wnaethom. Ynghyd â’r gyllideb, byddwn yn cyhoeddi set newydd o wybodaeth nad oedd ar gael i’r Cynulliad cyn hyn, gan gynnwys, er enghraifft, asesiad annibynnol ysgol fusnes Bangor o’r rhagolygon treth sydd wrth wraidd y cyfraddau a’r bandiau y byddaf yn eu cyhoeddi.
 
13:45
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you. UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton.
Diolch. Llefarydd UKIP, Neil Hamilton.
 
13:45
Neil HamiltonBywgraffiadBiographyArweinydd Grŵp UKIP Cymru / Leader of the UKIP Wales Group
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. As my maternal grandmother was born in Moncton, New Brunswick, I’d like to welcome our distinguished guests in the gallery as well. It makes me quarter a New Brunswicker, I suppose. [Interruption.]
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Gan fod fy mam-gu ar ochr fy mam wedi’i geni ym Moncton, New Brunswick, hoffwn groesawu ein gwesteion nodedig yn yr oriel hefyd. Mae hynny’n golygu fy mod yn chwarter New Brunswickiad, mae’n debyg. [Torri ar draws.]
 
We’ve missed the cheery presence of the Minister for lifelong learning this week, because he’s at the Labour Party conference, where I see he said yesterday, further to John McDonnell’s announcement that Labour are going to end private finance initiative contracts and buy them back, that in Wales there is no PFI. But of course I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary will agree with me that that’s not quite correct. In fact, the total capital value of PFI contracts that are related to the Welsh Government amounts to £565 million, on which the total unitary charges—the amount that they will have all cost by the end of the repayment period—are nearly six times that at £3 billion. Does it not now make sense for the Welsh Government to look into the possibility of refinancing this on a more cost-effective basis?
Rydym wedi gweld eisiau presenoldeb siriol y Gweinidog dysgu gydol oes yr wythnos hon, gan ei fod yng nghynhadledd y Blaid Lafur, lle y gwelais ei fod wedi dweud ddoe, yn sgil cyhoeddiad John McDonnell y bydd y Blaid Lafur yn dod â chontractau mentrau cyllid preifat i ben ac yn eu prynu yn ôl, nad oes mentrau cyllid preifat yng Nghymru. Ond wrth gwrs, rwy’n siŵr y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno â mi nad yw hynny’n hollol gywir. Mewn gwirionedd, mae cyfanswm gwerth cyfalaf y contractau mentrau cyllid preifat sy’n gysylltiedig â Llywodraeth Cymru yn £565 miliwn, gyda chyfanswm y taliadau unedol—y swm y byddant wedi’i gostio erbyn diwedd y cyfnod ad-dalu—bron yn chwe gwaith hynny, ar £3 biliwn. Onid yw’n gwneud synnwyr bellach i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried y posibilrwydd o ailariannu hyn ar sail fwy costeffeithiol?
 
13:47
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, Chair, where my colleague Alun Davies was speaking from was the fact that, in the devolution era, we have not signed up to new PFI deals. The Member is right that there are 23 historic PFI deals that pre-date devolution, only two of which are actually ones for which the Welsh Government is directly responsible. Indeed, there are examples in Wales already where organisations that embark on PFI deals have come to the conclusion that they would move to other arrangements. So, we do not have a recent history that we have to unravel in the way that it has to be unravelled in other parts of the United Kingdom, and where other arrangements are better made we’ve also got a track record of seeing those arrangements alter.
Wel, Cadeirydd, yr hyn y cyfeiriai fy nghyd-Aelod, Alun Davies, ato yw’r ffaith nad ydym wedi cytuno i gytundebau mentrau cyllid preifat newydd yn ystod y cyfnod ers datganoli. Mae’r Aelod yn llygad ei le fod gennym 23 o gytundebau mentrau cyllid preifat hanesyddol a ddaw o’r cyfnod cyn datganoli, ond nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru ond yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am ddau ohonynt. Yn wir, ceir enghreifftiau yng Nghymru eisoes lle y mae sefydliadau sy’n ymrwymo i gytundebau mentrau cyllid preifat wedi dod i’r casgliad y byddent yn newid i drefniadau eraill. Felly, nid oes gennym hanes diweddar y mae’n rhaid inni ei ddatod fel y mae’n rhaid ei ddatod mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, a lle y bo’n well gwneud trefniadau eraill, mae gennym hanes blaenorol o weld y trefniadau hynny’n newid hefyd.
 
13:48
I fully acknowledge that the record of the Welsh Government is far better than the UK Government’s on PFI contracts. Indeed, the total percentage of the unitary charges, the annual repayments, that are going to be made is only 1.7 per cent of the UK total. So, that’s a very good thing. But there’s still a substantial debt that is in gestation for repayment over many years, and reducing the costs of those repayments will, on an annual basis, mean that there is more money to spend upon other good things on which the public sector needs to spend.
Rwy’n llwyr gydnabod bod record Llywodraeth Cymru yn llawer gwell na record Llywodraeth y DU mewn perthynas â chontractau mentrau cyllid preifat. Yn wir, 1.7 y cant yn unig o gyfanswm y DU yw canran cyfanswm y taliadau unedol, yr ad-daliadau blynyddol, a fydd yn cael eu gwneud. Felly, mae hynny’n beth da iawn. Ond mae dyled sylweddol o hyd i’w had-dalu dros nifer o flynyddoedd, a bydd gostwng costau’r ad-daliadau hynny, o flwyddyn i flwyddyn, yn golygu bod mwy o arian i’w wario ar bethau da eraill y mae angen i’r sector cyhoeddus wario arnynt.
 
Of the projects that are currently outstanding, there’s the A55 from Llandygai to Holyhead; the capital value of that was £100 million. There’s the Lloyd George Avenue and Callaghan Square development here in Cardiff; the capital value of which was originally £45 million. That’s nearly a third of the total outstanding projects by value, on which, for £145 million of capital provided upfront, the repayment costs are nearly £800 million. That’s an appalling deal and the sooner we can unravel these contracts the better.
O’r prosiectau na thalwyd amdanynt ar hyn o bryd, mae’r A55 rhwng Llandygai a Chaergybi; roedd gwerth cyfalaf y prosiect hwnnw’n £100 miliwn. Ceir datblygiad Rhodfa Lloyd George a Sgwâr Callaghan yma yng Nghaerdydd; roedd gwerth cyfalaf gwreiddiol y prosiect hwnnw’n £45 miliwn. Dyna bron i draean o gyfanswm y prosiectau na thalwyd amdanynt o ran gwerth, ac am y £145 miliwn o gyfalaf a ddarparwyd ymlaen llaw, mae’r costau ad-dalu bron yn £800 miliwn. Mae honno’n fargen warthus a gorau po gyntaf y gallwn ddatod y contractau hyn.
 
13:49
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
The Member has accurately identified the two of the 23 schemes that are the direct Welsh Government schemes, and I don’t disagree with him in the principle of what he has said, that all these schemes need to be kept under review, so that if it is possible to rearrange things to the advantage of the Welsh taxpayer, we will always be open to doing that. As I said, there are examples of that already happening in Wales. So, we’re clearly not inimical to that possibility.
Mae’r Aelod yn llygad ei le wrth nodi, o’r 23 cynllun, y ddau sy’n gynlluniau uniongyrchol Llywodraeth Cymru, ac nid wyf yn anghytuno ag ef o ran egwyddor yr hyn a ddywedodd, fod angen cadw’r holl gynlluniau hyn dan adolygiad, er mwyn sicrhau, os oes modd aildrefnu pethau er budd trethdalwyr Cymru, ein bod bob amser yn agored i wneud hynny. Fel y dywedais, mae enghreifftiau o hynny’n digwydd eisoes yng Nghymru. Felly, mae’n amlwg nad ydym yn gwrthwynebu’r posibilrwydd o wneud hynny.
 
13:49
I’m very pleased to hear that answer from the Cabinet Secretary. Does he agree with me that the Blair and Brown Governments have a great deal to answer for, for the profligacy with which they entered into such contracts with abandon during those locust years, that although the Welsh Government can pride itself on its performance relatively speaking, the performance of Labour Governments at Westminster has been absolutely abysmal? Eighty four per cent of all the PFI contracts that have even been let were let under Blair as Prime Minister or Brown as Prime Minister. So, the Labour Party has quite a stain on its record.
Rwy’n falch iawn o glywed yr ateb hwnnw gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. A yw’n cytuno bod llawer iawn gan Lywodraethau Blair a Brown i ateb drosto, am eu hafradlonedd yn cytuno’n ddi-hid i gontractau o’r fath yn ystod y blynyddoedd anodd hynny, ac er y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ymfalchïo yn ei pherfformiad mewn cymhariaeth, fod perfformiad y Llywodraethau Llafur yn San Steffan wedi bod yn hollol anobeithiol? O’r holl gontractau mentrau cyllid preifat a luniwyd, cafodd wyth deg pedwar y cant ohonynt eu llunio pan oedd Blair yn Brif Weinidog neu Brown yn Brif Weinidog. Felly, mae gan y Blaid Lafur staen go fawr ar ei record.
 
13:50
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, Llywydd, ‘Aliae gentes, aliae mores’, where other people are responsible for the decisions they made in the circumstances in which they made them. Here in Wales, we faced those same decisions from the very beginning, we took a different view, but the nature of the problem that we were seeking to address may have been different as well.
Wel, Llywydd, ‘Aliae gentes, aliae mores’, lle y mae pobl eraill yn gyfrifol am y penderfyniadau a wnaethant o dan yr amgylchiadau y cawsant eu gwneud ganddynt. Yma yng Nghymru, wynebwyd yr un penderfyniadau gennym o’r cychwyn cyntaf, fe edrychom ni ar bethau o gyfeiriad gwahanol, ond efallai fod natur y broblem y ceisiem fynd i’r afael â hi yn wahanol hefyd.
 
13:51
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Adam Price.
Diolch. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.
 
13:51
I’m very intrigued by this new broad front that’s emerging between John McDonnell and Neil Hamilton; I never thought I’d live to see the day, quite frankly. But, Chair, could I just delve a little bit deeper? I was very interested and listening intently to what the finance Secretary was saying. In the wake of the shadow chancellor’s announcement about bringing these projects back inside the public sector, is it now Labour Party policy in Wales, and therefore of this Government, to bring those existing PFI projects in Wales back in-house, and therefore onto the Welsh Government’s balance sheet in the event of the election of a Labour Government in Westminster?
Mae gennyf gryn ddiddordeb yn y tir cyffredin newydd hwn sy’n ymddangos rhwng John McDonnell a Neil Hamilton; nid oeddwn yn meddwl y byddwn yn byw i weld hynny, mewn gwirionedd. Ond Cadeirydd, a gaf fi balu ychydig yn ddyfnach? Roedd gennyf gryn ddiddordeb, a bûm yn gwrando’n astud ar yr hyn a ddywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd cyllid. Yn sgil cyhoeddiad canghellor yr wrthblaid ynglŷn â dod â’r prosiectau hyn yn ôl i’r sector cyhoeddus, ai polisi’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru bellach, ac felly polisi’r Llywodraeth hon, yw dod â’r prosiectau mentrau cyllid preifat presennol yng Nghymru yn ôl yn fewnol, ac felly ar fantolen Llywodraeth Cymru pe bai Llywodraeth Lafur yn cael ei hethol yn San Steffan?
 
13:52
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, Chair, I’ll repeat what I’ve said earlier because it is very important to get the context of this right. The scale of the issue that we face in Wales is of a very, very different order to the scale faced elsewhere, and the recency of PFI schemes that we would have to address is very different as well. There have been only 23 schemes in Wales and very, very little new PFI in the devolution era, and of those 23, 21 of them are not the direct responsibility of the Welsh Government, belonging to local authorities and to the health service. But we are absolutely open to keeping under continual review whether or not those arrangements could be improved and a better deal secured for the taxpayer, and when we have the next Labour Government, then our ability to do that will be much enhanced.
Wel, Cadeirydd, rwyf am ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach gan ei bod yn bwysig inni gael cyd-destun hyn yn gywir. Mae graddau’r broblem sy’n ein hwynebu yng Nghymru yn wahanol tu hwnt i’r broblem a wynebir mewn mannau eraill, ac mae diweddarwch y cynlluniau mentrau cyllid preifat y byddai’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hwy yn wahanol iawn hefyd. Dim ond 23 cynllun a fu yng Nghymru ac ychydig iawn o fentrau cyllid preifat newydd a fu yn y cyfnod ers datganoli, ac o’r 23 cynllun, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am 21 ohonynt gan eu bod yn perthyn i awdurdodau lleol ac i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Ond rydym yn hollol agored i adolygu’n barhaus a ellid gwella’r trefniadau hynny a sicrhau gwell bargen i’r trethdalwr ai peidio, a phan gawn y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf, byddwn yn gallu gwneud hynny’n llawer gwell.
 
13:53
Could we turn to the present, then? Because the Welsh Government obviously is involved in the use of public-private partnerships, yes, through the mutual investment model involving a minority share held by the Welsh Government, but the majority share, 75 per cent and above, is held by the private sector, using the Government’s own language, where
A gawn ni droi at y presennol, felly? Oherwydd mae’n amlwg fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gysylltiedig â’r defnydd o bartneriaethau cyhoeddus-preifat, ydy, drwy’r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol sy’n cynnwys cyfran leiafrifol a ddelir gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ond delir y gyfran fwyaf, 75 y cant ac uwch, gan y sector preifat, gan ddefnyddio ieithwedd y Llywodraeth ei hun, lle y gall
 
‘private partners build and maintain public assets’,
partneriaid preifat adeiladu a chynnal asedau cyhoeddus,
 
and where
a lle
 
‘the Welsh Government will pay a fee to the private partner, which will cover the cost of construction, maintenance and financing the project.’
bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn talu ffi i’r partner preifat i dalu costau adeiladu, cynnal a chadw, ac ariannu’r prosiect.
 
Similar schemes in Scotland have been described by the Scottish Labour Party as ‘PFI by another name’. Indeed, the contract for the new A465 project, which has just been laid, is based on the old NHS PFI standard contract. So, can the Cabinet Secretary say whether it is now Labour Party policy in Wales, and Welsh Government policy, to bring the 75 per cent or so of these projects, which will remain in private ownership, back into public ownership in the event of the election of a Labour Government at Westminster?
Disgrifiwyd cynlluniau tebyg yn yr Alban gan Blaid Lafur yr Alban fel ‘mentrau cyllid preifat o dan enw arall’. Yn wir, mae’r contract ar gyfer prosiect newydd yr A465, sydd newydd gael ei osod, yn seiliedig ar hen gontract safonol menter cyllid preifat y GIG. Felly, a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddweud ai polisi’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru a pholisi Llywodraeth Cymru bellach fydd dod â’r oddeutu 75 y cant o’r prosiectau hyn a fydd yn parhau i fod mewn perchnogaeth breifat yn ôl i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus pe bai Llywodraeth Lafur yn cael ei hethol yn San Steffan?
 
13:54
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I have never been anything other than clear that I have an approach to capital spending as the Welsh Government’s finance Minister in which my first recourse is always to direct public capital. I’d always rather finance capital projects in that way because that is the cheapest way as far as Welsh taxpayers are concerned. And if I was in the happy position of having sufficient public capital to be able to do all the things that are necessary to secure Wales’s future, including the things that we will do through the mutual investment model, then I would prefer to be able to go ahead in that way. When we have the next Labour Government, then we will be in a much better position to do just that. As it is now, I have to plan for the position I am in today, where we will have, in 2019-20, a capital budget £400 million shorter each year than it was a decade earlier, and urgent needs that have to be met. That’s the context in which we have had to be more imaginative about the way that we secure capital investment in Wales. If I didn’t have to do it, if I had conventional public capital at my disposal with sufficient amounts, then I would always use that first.
Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, rwyf bob amser wedi dweud yn glir mai fy newis cyntaf bob tro, o ran fy ymagwedd tuag at wariant cyfalaf fel Gweinidog cyllid Llywodraeth Cymru, yw cyfalaf cyhoeddus uniongyrchol. Byddai bob amser yn well gennyf gyllido prosiectau cyfalaf yn y modd hwnnw gan mai dyna’r ffordd rataf i drethdalwyr Cymru. A phe bawn yn y sefyllfa braf o fod â digon o gyfalaf cyhoeddus i allu gwneud yr holl bethau sy’n angenrheidiol er mwyn diogelu dyfodol Cymru, gan gynnwys y pethau y byddwn yn eu gwneud drwy’r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol, byddai’n well gennyf allu parhau yn y ffordd honno. O dan y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf, byddwn mewn sefyllfa well o lawer i wneud hynny. Fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, mae’n rhaid i mi gynllunio ar gyfer y sefyllfa rwyf ynddi heddiw, lle y bydd gennym, yn 2019-20, gyllideb gyfalaf o £400 miliwn yn llai bob blwyddyn na’r hyn ydoedd ddegawd yn gynharach, ac anghenion pwysig sy’n rhaid eu diwallu. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw rydym wedi gorfod bod yn fwy dychmygus o ran y ffordd rydym yn sicrhau buddsoddiad cyfalaf yng Nghymru. Pe na bai’n rhaid i mi ei wneud, pe bai gennyf symiau digonol o gyfalaf cyhoeddus confensiynol ar gael at fy nefnydd, buaswn bob amser yn defnyddio hwnnw yn gyntaf.
 
13:55
You raise another dimension: the creative asymmetry that sometimes, I think, characterises Labour’s policy position, sometimes saying one thing in Westminster or Brighton and another thing in Wales. We did have, I thought, a rather bizarre statement by the Labour leaders of the three largest councils in Wales, where they said they would support strike action by their own council staff against their council against a pay cap that they and their own Labour Government in Wales could lift. So, can the Cabinet Secretary say whether we he will join with his Labour colleagues in saying that he would encourage and support strike action in Wales by public sector workers, or is he prepared to lead by example and lift that pay cap as the Scottish Government has done?
Rydych yn nodi dimensiwn arall: yr anghymesuredd creadigol sydd weithiau’n nodweddu safbwynt polisi Llafur, rwy’n credu, gan ddweud un peth yn San Steffan neu Brighton weithiau a dweud rhywbeth arall yng Nghymru. Yn fy marn i, cawsom ddatganiad braidd yn rhyfedd gan arweinwyr Llafur y tri chyngor mwyaf yng Nghymru, lle roeddent yn dweud y byddent yn cefnogi streic gan eu staff cyngor eu hunain yn erbyn eu cynghorau yn erbyn cap cyflog y gallent hwy a’u Llywodraeth Lafur eu hunain yng Nghymru ei godi. Felly, a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddweud a fydd yn ymuno â’i gyd-aelodau Llafur i ddweud y byddai’n annog ac yn cefnogi streic yng Nghymru gan weithwyr y sector cyhoeddus, neu a yw’n barod i arwain drwy esiampl a chodi’r cap cyflog hwnnw fel y mae Llywodraeth yr Alban wedi’i wneud?
 
13:56
Mark DrakefordBywgraffiadBiography
Well, Chair, I read very carefully what was said by Labour leaders, and I see that Councillor Andrew Morgan was very clear in saying that his first priority was to avoid strike action, not to encourage strike action; that is our first priority. But he went on to say, as we would say on these benches, that where public sector workers have seen their wages held down year after year after year, and now find themselves going into the eighth and ninth year of austerity, that it is absolutely understandable that people feel that they have to make the impact that that has on their lives apparent to others. Our position in relation to the pay cap is as clear as can be. We say to the UK Government, ‘You must lift the pay cap. This is your policy. You are responsible for it. You must lift the pay cap, and you must provide the money that would allow public sector workers in Wales to find their wages increased in line with the value that we attach to the work that they do.’
Wel, Cadeirydd, darllenais yr hyn a ddywedodd yr arweinwyr Llafur yn ofalus iawn, a gwelaf fod y Cynghorydd Andrew Morgan wedi dweud yn glir iawn mai ei flaenoriaeth gyntaf ef oedd osgoi streic, yn hytrach nag annog streic; dyna yw ein blaenoriaeth gyntaf ninnau. Ond aeth yn ei flaen i ddweud, fel y byddem yn ei ddweud ar y meinciau hyn, ei bod yn gwbl ddealladwy, pan fo cyflogau gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus yn cael eu cadw i lawr flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, ac o dan fesurau cyni am yr wythfed a’r nawfed flwyddyn bellach, fod pobl yn teimlo bod yn rhaid iddynt dynnu sylw eraill at yr effaith y mae hynny’n ei chael ar eu bywydau. Mae ein safbwynt mewn perthynas â’r cap cyflog mor glir â phosibl. Rydym yn dweud wrth Lywodraeth y DU, ‘Mae’n rhaid i chi godi’r cap cyflog. Eich polisi chi yw hwn. Chi sy’n gyfrifol amdano. Mae’n rhaid i chi godi’r cap cyflog, ac mae’n rhaid i chi ddarparu’r arian a fyddai’n caniatàu i gyflogau gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru gynyddu’n unol â’r gwerth rydym yn ei roi ar y gwaith y maent yn ei wneud.’
 
13:57
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding OfficerBywgraffiadBiography
Thank you. We return to questions on the agenda paper, and it’s question 3, Jayne Bryant.
Diolch. Dychwelwn at y cwestiynau ar yr agenda, a daw cwestiwn 3 gan Jayne Bryant.